Author Topic: PAL/ILP pics...again  (Read 288 times)

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Offline Spectrum

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PAL/ILP pics...again
« on: January 15, 2010, 02:31:05 AM »
I did another quick shoot before it got too dark. Some of these are new, some are old, but I think these are what I'm going to go with.  I'm going to print them tomorrow after work and get the applications sent.

***AKC***

Profile:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/faithtimtoby/palilp013-1.jpg?t=1240543923

Front:

http://i48.tinypic.com/vo1tvr.jpg


***UKC***

Profile:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e48/faithtimtoby/palilp013-1.jpg?t=1240543923

Head:

http://i47.tinypic.com/2dt6c8g.jpg




Now, look at that head shot and tell me he's not a boxer  :raspberry:  There was a stray kitty "helping" with the pics.  Gavroche will chase a cat if given the opportunity.  This cat kept coming under the fence, strutting along, going in and out of the shed...and nothing Gavroche did would scare him off.  So he just stared at the cat, and that's how I got those lovely wrinkes to come out in the head shot...concentration, I suppose! LOL

I need to do some cropping on some of the pictures...mostly just the front view one.

Also, I think my dad was hinting at me getting/training a service dog for myself.  He was saying how the one thing that would keep me from having him as a service dog is his cat fixation.  So...I don't know if he was actually thinking I ought to get an SD, or if it was just a comment. I have wanted to tell him for a long time, but haven't yet. I plan on telling him before I get my poodle pup, whenever that may be. I could use his help, and I think I could best use his help if he know what I was planning from the beginning. fortunately, after the way he's been acting lately, I think he'd accept it.  Even my mom has been really good about things lately, and is even now thoroughly convinced that my nephew is also autisitc...now if we could just convince his parents or the school of that  :tongue:  I think what finally sealed it for her was his new haircut...he got his hair cut short and it's obvious he has a bald spot and a little bump/scar from intentionally hitting his head on things when he gets frustrated/overwhelmed. Now, to give my mom credit, she did try to bring it up with his mom, but all she did was ask, "Is it contagious?"  :blink:
Gavroche de la Rue RN CGC - "Gavroche" (boxer), ESA
Moxie's Adamantium Man HIC CGC - "Logan" (smooth collie), SDiT
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Offline Spectrum

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Re: PAL/ILP pics...again
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2010, 02:35:04 AM »
Oh yeah...what I think I'm going to do with registration is send in the UKC one first, and sent it in rush since it's cheaper to rush that one. If they say he's a boxer, I'll note it on the AKC form (they have a place that asks if he's registered as a boxer anywhere else), just to hopefully give it a little boost. If I have to rush it I will, but I think it'll be okay if I don't. I'll figure that out when I know how long it takes to get the UKC one back.

If I can get him registered in time, I may try him in a rally trial once before the sunflower cluster, just to give us both a little bit of experience at a smaller show before hitting that big 4-day one (yeah, it's 4 days, not 3...it starts on a Thursday)
Gavroche de la Rue RN CGC - "Gavroche" (boxer), ESA
Moxie's Adamantium Man HIC CGC - "Logan" (smooth collie), SDiT
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Offline Sheenar

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Re: PAL/ILP pics...again
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2010, 05:05:20 PM »
I've done some research on PAL registration with the AKC, but haven't been sure how to get it done. I've been wanting to do Rally with Pebbles, but at the rate we're going, she'll be too old to do it by the time I actually get her registered! But maybe with my next dog I can do Rally.
 I was a little confused about how it all worked and exactly how to take the pictures correctly. They need a head-on shot and then a full body shot from the side, right?
 I have her AKC registration form, but can't use it since it is a copy. Apparently her previous recipient's family has the original of the form, so I have to do the Alternate Listing.

For Rally, the dog competes without a harness, but on leash for the first level. Without her harness, I would use a walker to get around. Is that allowed?
Partnered with Pebbles October 23, 2006 - April 30, 2010. Waiting for successor Handsome.

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Offline k1maplewd

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Re: PAL/ILP pics...again
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2010, 05:12:10 PM »
Hi Sheenar

Yes you can use a mobility aid in the ring.  The AKC makes special accomodations for disabled handlers.  I believe (check the rules) that you need to write the AKC if you need any specific accomodations other than what normal handlers would have.  So for example if a blind handler needed the posts in the figure 8 to say 'post, post, post' so they would know where they are for the exercise, they need a letter from the AKC to give to the judge at that show for that accomodation.  Or things like that.  But to use a wheelchair or walker, I don't know that you would need any excess accomodations so I don't think you need an official letter from AKC to give to the judge.

Offline Kirsten

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Re: PAL/ILP pics...again
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2010, 05:37:09 PM »
I don't know how boxers are supposed to look, so perhaps this is intentional.  The first photo, because of the tilting line in the background makes him look unbalanced.  His shoulders are higher than his hips, but if you tilt the photo to make the horizon line horizontal that isn't the case.  If the intent is to make his shoulders higher I think a softer horizon line would be the better effect.  That hard line makes it obvious the photo is tilted and that tilting in itself is uncomfortable to the viewer.  His right hind foot is also out of position.

When you set a dog's legs in a stack, it is important to grasp them ABOVE the elbows and hocks for a more natural appearance.  Ideally you would use other methods to move the legs without touching them, perhaps with some artful luring.

With the second photo, again the strongly tilted horizon line is disorienting.  His front legs are not even.  His hind legs aren't even either, but the front legs not being even really breaks the lines.

On both photos, I'd try to have someone out of camera shot luring to get his expression a little more alert.  On the side view, I'd like to see the ears looking more forward like they are in the front view, but even.

As even and symmetrical as you can make it, this will add harmony to the over all look.  We don't know what judge is going to look at these photos.  I've seen judges qualified to judge GSDs who wouldn't know a correct-to-the-standard dog if it bit them.  But all judges will recognize a well presented dog.  Geez.  We even had one apprentice judge in a match place a GSD with a dropped ear.  (A dropped ear is a disqualifying fault.)  In a real show, I saw a judge place a dog missing both ear tips from a dog fight.  :rolleyes:

Like I said, I can't tell you how to pose him to emphasize his most boxery characteristics because I don't know the breed well enough, but I can offer some tips on stacking on photographing that will make it look more professional and with some judges that's all it would take.

This resource, from a judge's perspective, may be helpful.  I think you would want to increase the height of his front end from those photos, but I'd do it by moving the hind legs back about 2 inches and tilting slightly, but doing it with no horizon line in the background.  I'd move the right hind leg more laterally to make a false horizon line on the ground that raises the front end.  I'd get his head looking straight ahead and definitely alert.  He doesn't have the cropped ears, so you've got to do something to get that alert expression.  According to the photo, his tail should be raised. 

Experiment with taking the photo slightly from above and slightly from behind rather than straight on.  You'll have to find a balance to do it just a little but not enough to be obvious.  I think his back is a bit long for the depth of his chest so shooting slightly from behind might shorten his back and shooting slightly from above may thicken his torso a bit.

Here's the illustrated standard I used for comparison:  http://americanboxerclub.org/illstand14.html
(Remember, I don't actually know boxers, so someone who does would give better advice on positioning him.)
« Last Edit: January 15, 2010, 05:39:34 PM by Kirsten »
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Offline Sunkala Joy van Veen

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Re: PAL/ILP pics...again
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2010, 06:09:03 PM »
I've seen dogs get an ILP with only a passing resemblance to the purported breed.  But as Kirsten said, it all depends on the judge who does the evaluation. 

A stacked Boxer has the topline slope down gently to the tail.  In other words, the withers are higher than the top of the croup.  Front legs are directly below the shoulders.  Rear legs are: the stifle below or a little behind the hips, and the pasterns well behind the hips.

The UKC is less persnickety than the AKC, so I understand your reasoning.  But remember; the AKC is strongly biased against the UKC.  When registering a dog with an international registration (FCI), I like to register with both AKC and UKC.  UKC is faster, but I always do AKC first as otherwise there can be a lot of red tape to go through.  But I have no idea if the same would be true of what you are doing, as it isn't the same as full registration.

I've never had any difficulty getting an ILP on any rescue or shelter dog, but I haven't done so in a couple of decades.

To me, he looks like a boxer.  I would never mistake him for any other breed.
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Offline Spectrum

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Re: PAL/ILP pics...again
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2010, 06:44:25 PM »
The tilted images aren't intentional, I jsut suck at holding the camera straight with one hand  :wink:  :raspberry:  All of them need at least a little bit of cropping, so I might see how they look after cropping.  I slept longer than I intended and didn't get a chance to print them and send them off yet, so I might try pics one more time tomorrow.  If not I might send the UKC off as it is and then try more pics for AKC until it comes back.

I've heard from several people that they're really not terribly picky about the ILP dogs.  Whichi I suppose it makes sence, since they're not going to be breeding or anything. But I'd rather give it the best chance of going through on the first try, too.

I think the reason I'm not as confident about him being  a boxer is that I initially thought he was an American Bulldog. I was the only one at work that doubted he was a boxer, though.  Color and lack of a docked tail always throws me off, though. i do get some strange guesses sometimes when we're out and people want to know what he is (everything from dalmation to chihuahua  :raspberry:), but a vast majority of people think he's a boxer.
Gavroche de la Rue RN CGC - "Gavroche" (boxer), ESA
Moxie's Adamantium Man HIC CGC - "Logan" (smooth collie), SDiT
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Offline Kirsten

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Re: PAL/ILP pics...again
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2010, 07:04:58 PM »
UKC is not picky because they allow AMBOR (mixed breed) registration.  AKC is just starting to consider coming out of the dark ages with respect to mixed-breed dogs.  I can't say how they are now with the policy change, but they used to be quite snobby about it.

As I always say:  a dog is a dog.  The only time breeding matters is when one is considering breeding.  AKC sees the world as purebred and not purebred.  Which is a shame.  I wish they could see it as "well bred" and "poorly bred" instead and focus the significance of the breeding as an ACT of the BREEDER (who had a choice) and not on the value/worth of the dog (who had no choice).  It would be the end of puppy mills.
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Offline Sunkala Joy van Veen

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Re: PAL/ILP pics...again
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2010, 07:24:44 PM »
There are some distinct differences in American Bulldogs and Boxers.  On the UKC site you'll note that the head, ears, and tail are all different.  Head has top of head and muzzle parallel, while boxers have thew muzzle at a more acute angle to the top of the head.  The length of muzzle and head are equal in Am Bulls but in boxers the muzzle length is half that of the head.  The ear size and is different, with the boxer being larger for his size.  The American Bulldog tail has a thick base.  Not so in the boxer.  Am Bulls can be larger than boxers but their size range overlaps boxers, so both can be the same size in height but boxers would weigh less.  In fact the AKC standard doesn't say anything about the tail at all, though the UKC one does. 

Below are the UKC standards for both.  Your dog definitely fits the boxer standard more than the UKC.  The biggest difference is in permitted colours.

http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/Breeds/AmericanBulldogRevisedOctober12009

http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/Breeds/Boxer
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Offline Spectrum

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Re: PAL/ILP pics...again
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2010, 11:31:46 PM »
I got the UKC back today - he's a boxer  :laugh:  Took them long enough...I paid the extra $10 for rush processing which is supposed to take 5 business days. It's been 20 days (so 15 business days)  :tongue:


Now I'm waiting for AKC. I was hoping to get his number before today so he could enter the show in Garden City next month (entries close today), but no luck. We'll wait for the Cluster, then.
Gavroche de la Rue RN CGC - "Gavroche" (boxer), ESA
Moxie's Adamantium Man HIC CGC - "Logan" (smooth collie), SDiT
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Offline Spectrum

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Re: PAL/ILP pics...again
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2010, 10:03:57 PM »
I finally got the AKC stuff at the end of last week!   They say boxer too :biggrin:  Too late for Garden City, but still plenty of time for the Sunflower Cluster.  Apparently Onofrio screwed up their information for the Cluster, though, so we're waiting on that to get sorted out.

We were taking today in class about how someone could dump a dog like Gavroche. The trainer was asking me if he chewed and dug and was a general pain when I got him, since we estimated he was only a year old. He's really always been perfectly behaved in the house. He has had a couple accidents, but only when he's been sick and had very watery diarrhea, and that was my fault that I didn't get him out in time. He's never chewed anything, he's never been wild (except the first day I brought him home he had the zoomies, but still nothing terrible lol). The biggest problem I've ever had with him was when I first got him he thought he had to greet every dog he saw (he would still like to, but has some self-control now), and his reactivity to cats. And even the cats thing we're slowly getting over, with the help of Buddha :wink: I kind of wonder if he wasn't actually dumped, but just had some bad luck and got lost somehow.  He's definitely always known that beds are for sleeping in, and couches are for laying on ROFL
Gavroche de la Rue RN CGC - "Gavroche" (boxer), ESA
Moxie's Adamantium Man HIC CGC - "Logan" (smooth collie), SDiT
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