Author Topic: Highly Trained Autism Service Dog to Assist Four-Year-Old Child in  (Read 633 times)

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Offline responsiblek9

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http://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/3568667

Highly Trained Autism Service Dog to Assist Four-Year-Old Child in ...
Digital Journal-7 hours ago
​​Ethan, a four-year-old boy in New Vernon, NJ, received a very special Autism Service Dog delivery from Service Dogs by Warren Retrievers. Based in Madison, Virginia, Service Dogs by Warren Retrievers, or “SDWR,” has a mission to provide specially-bred and trained dogs for adults and children with invisible ...
A thousand miles you walked with me ,
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  Down many a lonely place, On darkened  paths and streets

Offline Kirsten

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Re: Highly Trained Autism Service Dog to Assist Four-Year-Old Child in
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2017, 11:35:34 PM »
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Not ANOTHER victim.  :headbang:
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Offline OlgatheGSD

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Re: Highly Trained Autism Service Dog to Assist Four-Year-Old Child in
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2017, 11:36:55 PM »
Oh barf. No team training is presented as a good thing? As nice as it sounds to not have to travel to get a dog, that is such a horrible idea. They could do daily Skype sessions and dump a 3000 page manual on their doorstep next to the dog and it still wouldn't replace team training.

I thought tethering not only wasn't a task, but is also highly unethical because there's better ways to do that, like tethering to an adult, and it can physically hurt the dog.. a dog isn't a nanny or a replacement for parenting.
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Offline LolaMarigolda

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Re: Highly Trained Autism Service Dog to Assist Four-Year-Old Child in
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2017, 01:11:09 AM »
I saw a SS the other day from one of their paid for posts where they are now claiming to train seizure response dogs with claims some are alerting.
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Offline Kirsten

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Re: Highly Trained Autism Service Dog to Assist Four-Year-Old Child in
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2017, 01:57:02 AM »
The thing with Warren Retrievers is you pay full price as if you were purchasing a professionally trained service dog, but you get a puppy that you are expected to train yourself.  It's not even a well bred puppy.  So you get around $500 in value for your $20,000 fundraising investment.

I've read their contract.  It's hideous.

Lesson to learn:  If you're going to be spending $20,000, whether it's your own or money you collect from your friends and neighbors, have an attorney review the frigging contract.

Penny pinching?  You can run a contract by us first and get our experience on how similar it is to contracts we've seen and if we notice anything that we've seen cause problems in the past.  It's not as good as an attorney, but if we flip out then you know not to waste time or money with an attorney, just turn and run.

But don't friging sign a contract without at least someone else reading it for a second opinion, preferably someone who's decent at reading contracts, like a business person.

Red flag for this company?  They weren't letting their own clients see the contract they were expected to sign before they started fundraising.  They weren't allowed to see it until the day the dog was delivered, after all fundraising was complete.  If they didn't sign, then they didn't get the dog and the company could keep the money.  DON'T FRIGGIN DO THAT!  See the contract before you start any fundraising, before you start telling people how wonderful the program is, before you do anything.
Kirsten and Tardis
In loving memory of Cole (1/11/99 - 6/26/12)  He gave me back my life.

"The one absolute, unselfish friend that man can have in this selfish world -- the one that never proves ungrateful or treacherous -- is his dog." -George G. Vest

Offline LolaMarigolda

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Re: Highly Trained Autism Service Dog to Assist Four-Year-Old Child in
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2017, 02:45:34 AM »
They've changed up some of their business practices.  Started trying the puppy raiser method but using college students.  They were kicked out of one school.  Puppy raisers that have wised up are refusing to return their dogs and in quite a few instances, LE officials are refusing to assist/accompany program official when they seek the return of the dog since it's a civil matter.

From what I've read of it, the puppy raiser contract is as bad, if not worse, than the last client contract.  Raisers are expected to pay for everything out of pocket. 
My relationship with my SD is like a marriage.  In fact, my two-legged husband calls Scooter "the other man".
KD & Remington Barrett (Remy)
Scooter (14 February 2004 - 16 September 2015)

Offline Ariel

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Re: Highly Trained Autism Service Dog to Assist Four-Year-Old Child in
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2017, 09:49:08 AM »
They've changed up some of their business practices.  Started trying the puppy raiser method but using college students. They were kicked out of one school.  Puppy raisers that have wised up are refusing to return their dogs and in quite a few instances, LE officials are refusing to assist/accompany program official when they seek the return of the dog since it's a civil matter.

From what I've read of it, the puppy raiser contract is as bad, if not worse, than the last client contract.  Raisers are expected to pay for everything out of pocket.

This seems to be the case at a university in my city. When I posted a few months ago about a friend who came to me sharing evidence of struggling with untrained puppies in class who were misbehaving and well-meaning raisers who didn't have a clue what they were doing and were allegedly receiving no support, what you've said is what I was told was the situation with them.
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Offline SandyStern

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Re: Highly Trained Autism Service Dog to Assist Four-Year-Old Child in
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2017, 10:34:16 AM »
I heard through the grapevine that the Virginia Attorney General was going after them.

Offline LolaMarigolda

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Re: Highly Trained Autism Service Dog to Assist Four-Year-Old Child in
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2017, 01:31:07 PM »
I heard through the grapevine that the Virginia Attorney General was going after them.

They've received 40-something complaints over the last I don't know how many years, none of which, to my knowledge, have been resolved.  I don't know what they are waiting on.  It didn't take the state of New York anywhere near this amount of time to shut down Sabin.
My relationship with my SD is like a marriage.  In fact, my two-legged husband calls Scooter "the other man".
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Scooter (14 February 2004 - 16 September 2015)

Offline Azariah

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Re: Highly Trained Autism Service Dog to Assist Four-Year-Old Child in
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2017, 01:35:39 PM »
The four year old is what gives me pause. I have an eight year old who is way way more saavy than most kids with dog stuff. She's taken classes since she was five years old. She's stewarded. She's helped with competitions. Etc.. And there is NO WAY that she is even close to being good enough with a dog to have a service dog. NO WAY. Not a chance. And we're talking someone who is leaps and bounds above the average kid in being trained with dogs. She doesn't need a service dog but my estimate would be the absolute earliest she'd be able to handle a FULLY TRAINED service dog (not one that still needs training) would be 11. And that would be if she continues to take classes and practice a lot at home.

I think that context is really important when you think about young kids and service dogs.

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Offline SandyStern

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Re: Highly Trained Autism Service Dog to Assist Four-Year-Old Child in
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2017, 02:11:59 PM »
I hadn't known about Sabin before this thread, so I looked it up. After the injunction issued, Sabin filed a civil rights case against the AG and others.  http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20120912/NEWS07/709129869

Does anyone have an update?

Offline Kirsten

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Re: Highly Trained Autism Service Dog to Assist Four-Year-Old Child in
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2017, 02:48:03 PM »
He fled to Canada last I heard.
Kirsten and Tardis
In loving memory of Cole (1/11/99 - 6/26/12)  He gave me back my life.

"The one absolute, unselfish friend that man can have in this selfish world -- the one that never proves ungrateful or treacherous -- is his dog." -George G. Vest

Offline Kirsten

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Re: Highly Trained Autism Service Dog to Assist Four-Year-Old Child in
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2017, 02:51:01 PM »
The young kids with service dogs is Lassie syndrome.  They don't have realistic expectations of what a dog is or what it's limitations are.  Parents are desperate and I understand that.  Unfortunately there are people willing to tell them what they want to hear and they're wllling to believe it.

I don't think a kid under 12 is going to have a chance going solo with a service dog (without an adult backup handler).  Most guide dog schools look for clients to be over 16, based on their past experience with success rates.  That sounds about right to me.  A lot of 16 year olds aren't going to be ready, but certainly some will.
Kirsten and Tardis
In loving memory of Cole (1/11/99 - 6/26/12)  He gave me back my life.

"The one absolute, unselfish friend that man can have in this selfish world -- the one that never proves ungrateful or treacherous -- is his dog." -George G. Vest

Offline LolaMarigolda

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Re: Highly Trained Autism Service Dog to Assist Four-Year-Old Child in
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2017, 07:24:01 PM »
He fled to Canada last I heard.

He sold the business to someone in Canada.  He still lives in up-state New York.  He's also the person behind SDFP on FB; the page that has published member lists to several FB groups claiming those people are fakes, claiming to have called CPS on any he's determined have children, and otherwise trying to stalk/doxx people.


I hadn't known about Sabin before this thread, so I looked it up. After the injunction issued, Sabin filed a civil rights case against the AG and others.  http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20120912/NEWS07/709129869

Does anyone have an update?

It was thrown out. 
My relationship with my SD is like a marriage.  In fact, my two-legged husband calls Scooter "the other man".
KD & Remington Barrett (Remy)
Scooter (14 February 2004 - 16 September 2015)

Offline qtrhorse89

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Re: Highly Trained Autism Service Dog to Assist Four-Year-Old Child in
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2017, 12:57:45 AM »
I was under the impression that SDs for younger children are always trained to work in a triad where the adult is the main handler and the child is secondary?

The program I am going through does place autism dogs (no tethering for those curious) for children that are as young as 8 or 9, but always with the understanding that the parent is the main handler.