Author Topic: ADA violations over service dog in sorority house  (Read 173 times)

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Offline responsiblek9

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ADA violations over service dog in sorority house
« on: November 16, 2017, 03:02:50 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/us/sorority-sister-dog-dispute-trnd/index.html


ADA violations over service dog in sorority house

By Amanda Watts, CNN
Updated 1:00 PM ET, Thu November 16, 2017
One sorority sister uses a service dog to control her panic attacks. Another suffers from dog allergies that exacerbate other medical conditions.

Both live in the Chi Omega sorority house at The Ohio State University.


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Online SandyStern

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Re: ADA violations over service dog in sorority house
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2017, 03:41:39 PM »
1. Lying on handler's stomach is not a task, even if it treats panic attacks, which I doubt.
2. Students playing with the dog all over the house = red flag.
3. If the allergies really trigger asthma and that worsens Crohns, it's not just the "service dog outweighs allergies" issue.

Also, please grow up! I know you're college kids, but you're acting like kindergartners.

Offline meeshymoosh

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Re: ADA violations over service dog in sorority house
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2017, 09:08:51 PM »
I take another stance on this, having been to college with a roommate who had a seizure alert dog. I also have a PSD who is task-trained to mitigate disabling symptoms from my panic attacks:

1. Lying on a person's stomach doesn't "treat" panic attacks, no, but this is an article that is not going to go in depth on every single task this dog carries out for their handler. Immediately feeling like this person is faking or doesn't have a trained dog isn't exactly supporting others who have their dogs do similar things in response to their symptoms. Samson is trained to place his head on my knee/paw my knee when my breathing changes or I'm grasping at my throat/chest or having trouble swallowing so THEN I can use my own coping skills. Those coping skills might include me sitting/lying down and having him lie on my chest while I do grounding/breathing techniques until the shakes go away and I am able to stand up or get to a safer place. If an article was explaining my life, they might just say, "Samson lies on her chest and helps her panic attacks." Then, it could be linked here where someone could say, "lying on a handlers stomach isn't a task". I am not trying to attack you, just simply point out how this came across to me.

2.  The article states, ""Freshman and sophomore students are required to live either on-campus or in Greek housing. Since she's the Chi Omega chapter vice president, she lives in her sorority house."

Being a student in a community home with a dog IS their home. That's like saying your dog shouldn't play with other members of your household (of you have any) once they are largely "off duty" at home. Again, I lived in a college dorm/apartment situation with a roommate who had a service dog. When we were home with our 6 roommates, Brody absolutely was able to hang out around the small house and relax when not working. Some roommates wanted nothing to do with the dog, but others were all about that knucklehead. "All over the house" = who knows what this means? How big is the house/room/floor? Maybe another sorority sister LOVES the dog and takes him out to get exercise or walk for the owner so she can study or take a break. Maybe the dog is with the handler 24/7 but when she visits her sorority sister's rooms, they are 100% cool with the dog chilling off duty with them. Maybe she chills out "all over" in the common area with him on a leash? She is the vice president of the sorority house, so she's expected to have personal relationships with her sisters.

3. The article states that the person with the PSD has to either move out or be without her service dog. Can you imagine? I'm not saying the person with the Crohns isn't suffering in her own issues, but this isn't black and white, "fake college student has glorified ESA and is being obnoxious about it". If there is a way this can be resolved where the individuals are separated on floors/rooms/etc, then that should happen. Punishing one or the other by disabilities they cannot help isn't the right way.

 I feel like there's a lot of hostility concerning these issues that are real and valid, on both sides. I don't see where you're gleaning that they are acting like kindergartners...the article says "they are at odds", but again, who knows what that means? I'd certainly be feeling awkward and upset if I was either of these girls, especially now that CNN picked up the story...

"The "case is not about whether plaintiff can have her assistance animal as a reasonable accommodation. She can. Instead, this is about how OSU, specifically Lissner, must accommodate two students with disabilities whose accommodations are in conflict.""

This happens all the time in the real world, and it happened to me at my old place of employment.

I don't know why I felt like responding this whole book, but maybe it's because it struck a chord with me and I wanted to be honest about how the reactions made me feel. It's so easy to feel like we're doing everything right and someone else is doing things wrong, especially when they are younger than us. These are just my feelings on the matter.

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Offline Ariel

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Re: ADA violations over service dog in sorority house
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2017, 09:38:05 PM »
It does not sound as if they can just live on different floors. If you put the dog with the handler on the first floor, there will be a lot of dander down there. If you put the dog on an upper floor, the dog still comes downstairs and it makes the upper floor inaccessible to the student with an allergy. The ADA coordinator of the school did not base his decision on whether the service dog was legitimate or not or if the needs of the student with panic attacks were less than those with the dog allergies and exacerbated Crohn's. He based it upon who signed the lease first, in this case the person with allergies. Since that student cannot live safely with the dog, it seems fair to say that the handler has the option to either remove the dog from the house or move. It isn't an easy situation, but it seems fair. It sounds as if had the student with the service dog signed the lease first the student with the allergy would be made to choose if her allergies were severe to the point that she must move out or not.
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Offline philopsher77

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Re: ADA violations over service dog in sorority house
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2017, 07:31:33 PM »
2.  The article states, ""Freshman and sophomore students are required to live either on-campus or in Greek housing. Since she's the Chi Omega chapter vice president, she lives in her sorority house."

Being a student in a community home with a dog IS their home. That's like saying your dog shouldn't play with other members of your household (of you have any) once they are largely "off duty" at home. Again, I lived in a college dorm/apartment situation with a roommate who had a service dog. When we were home with our 6 roommates, Brody absolutely was able to hang out around the small house and relax when not working. Some roommates wanted nothing to do with the dog, but others were all about that knucklehead. "All over the house" = who knows what this means? How big is the house/room/floor? Maybe another sorority sister LOVES the dog and takes him out to get exercise or walk for the owner so she can study or take a break. Maybe the dog is with the handler 24/7 but when she visits her sorority sister's rooms, they are 100% cool with the dog chilling off duty with them. Maybe she chills out "all over" in the common area with him on a leash? She is the vice president of the sorority house, so she's expected to have personal relationships with her sisters.

Just a comment:  it's not at all clear which of the two students is the sorority vice president.  That sentence is right after the paragraph describing the second student.  Both are obviously "sisters" in the house, and there is no indication that the other un-named student isn't a freshman or sophomore, so that sentence is just really badly written with a very unclear reference.  Strictly speaking, grammatically it would refer to the most recent "her" referenced, which would be the person with the allergy and Crohn's, which is also slightly supported by the fact that they refer to the SD handler by name and there is no reason not to do so here if they meant her.  But the writer could have just been sloppy.

And yes, I get the distinct impression that if the person with the service dog had signed the lease first, she would be staying and the other student would be asked to move out. 

Offline Solace

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Re: ADA violations over service dog in sorority house
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2017, 07:46:20 PM »
Would it even be possible to prove that the dog dander makes her Crohn's worse?  That sounds like it would be a difficult thing to prove in court.

Offline philopsher77

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Re: ADA violations over service dog in sorority house
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2017, 08:15:33 PM »
It would be difficult to prove, and would require expert witnesses, etc.  However, starting with the basis that Crohn's is an inflammatory response, and allergies are also inflammatory responses, I can see a possible nexus.   Whether you can PROVE it... that's a different question.

Offline meeshymoosh

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Re: ADA violations over service dog in sorority house
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2017, 10:39:29 PM »
Quote
Just a comment:  it's not at all clear which of the two students is the sorority vice president.

Yes, the article doesn't seem to be clear about a lot of things :sad: which is why I wanted to provide the "what ifs" about their housing. Either girl is having a rough time and now it's in the spotlight of news sources writing really "sensational" articles.

The follow up article shows it was based on who signed the lease first. Then, it was recanted because:

Quote
The judge's decision was based on the fact that "Lissner did not perform the inquiry required under the ADA before disallowing the use of a service animal. In fact, Lissner did not even establish that it was Cory who aggravated the symptoms of (the other sister's) disability," according to the court documents.

My whole point in responding was to challenge some viewpoints about how easy it is to immediately side with one side or the other. "Fake service dog" or "fake Crohn's whining" when we cannot know these girl's emotions or the true, non-sensationalized facts. This was a very interesting case, one that I hope could come to an agreement with both benefiting.
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Offline responsiblek9

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Re: ADA violations over service dog in sorority house
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2017, 10:46:23 PM »


 
Quote
Entine said she is a Chi Omega chapter vice president, which requires her to live in the house.
A thousand miles you walked with me ,
 Through the fields and streams
  Down many a lonely place, On darkened  paths and streets

Offline Kirsten

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Re: ADA violations over service dog in sorority house
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2017, 11:42:40 PM »
They could accommodate the person who is negatively impacted by the dog's presence by waiving the rule requiring her to live in the chapter house.

Or they could restrict the dog to the handler's room and place that room near a convenient exit for toileting and exercising.

Seems like basically they assumed the only question to answer was whether to let the dog stay and not how to make it work if the dog stayed or how to determine standing of both parties.  They forgot the investigation and negotiation and skipped right to the decision about access.
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