Author Topic: Prospect Breeds  (Read 305 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline holladogs

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Mood: Okay
  • SDC interest: waiting
Prospect Breeds
« on: September 17, 2017, 11:00:26 AM »
So I am currently thinking about not having the prospect I got do service work. He is definitely not fit. He is extremely unmotivated, his hips don't seem good, he has a huge fear of strangers, etc. If I do decide to stop him from service work, he will probably be kept as my mom's pet or rehomed. Now I am thinking of different service dog breeds. The reason I went with a rescue dog is because he was cheaper, had all his health stuff done and he seemed like a good prospect. The shelter told us AFTER we adopted him and after the week span we could return him, that they think his past-owners abused him.

I am now looking for a breeder dog. They will need to be at least 19 inches and 40+ lb. I am looking for a breed that is calm, eager to please, easy to train and friendly towards practically everyone and everything. It cannot be extremely large and the less shedding - the better. I would like a dog that lacks a crazy prey drive and is not super high energy. Much like my american line doberman - he is able to lounge around the house with occasional games of fetch and tug of war. He would also be content with a two hour long hike. That would be my ideal dog. I want a dog that is not crazy active but also able to do stuff that requires energy without getting tired out easily. I want a dog that is not prone to any sort of aggression. That also is not usually protective or emotionally sensitive. Here are a list of a few tasks I will need.

- interrupting skin picking
- guiding to person, place, thing
- block/cover
- grounding (keeping me from dissociating, snapping me out of a panic attack, etc)

Here are my current breed ideas :

- golden retriever
- shiloh shepherd
- labrador retriever

If you have any other breed ideas, please let me know.

Offline Summertime.and.Azkaban

  • Resident Terrier Wrangler
  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Posts: 1948
  • Holli and Azkaban
  • Location: North Carolina USA
  • Mood: Tired
  • SDC interest: owner-trainer
Re: Prospect Breeds
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2017, 11:11:33 AM »
Shilohs came out of GSDs right? I'd avoid them, especially since they're not a recognized breed yet.

Go with a lab. Labs are less likely to feed into anxiety than softer goldens.
-Azkaban, Rayner, and Chewy-
"I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights" -Desmond Tutu
PM me about being pen pals or receiving a holiday card in the mail!

Offline mommagrizzly

  • Loquacious Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 567
  • Location: TN
  • Mood: Happy
  • SDC interest: SD partner
Re: Prospect Breeds
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2017, 11:59:49 AM »
I 2nd going with a Lab. I think that will probably be your best bet.
Do what you think you can't do
Keturah's FB Page
PM me about being pen pals

Offline Moonsong

  • Dog Training Student
  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2270
  • My SD is my Super (hero) Dog
  • Location: Arizona USA
  • Mood: Sad
  • SDC interest: owner-trainer
Re: Prospect Breeds
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2017, 12:00:21 PM »
A lab is going to be your best bet.

Goldens are good too.

I would not suggest a shiloh shepherd. Aren't those a giant breed? Here are some pictures for comparison:
http://www.kokopelli-shepherds.com/Kokopelli-Shepherds/Shiloh_vs_GSD_files/shapeimage_2.png
http://www.kokopelli-shepherds.com/Kokopelli-Shepherds/Shiloh_vs_GSD_files/Media/Bria_Quinn2/thumb.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Z495kKpzLko/ULEHztwfRSI/AAAAAAAABq8/rBU1w77Lr2g/s1600/shiloh_shepherd.jpg

Their life spans are also supposedly only, like, nine years or so.

Thing is, you don't have a lot of guarantees with these guys since they aren't an official/established breed. Those coats would probably need a LOT of grooming to fight off mats, too.

Also, when you have psych issues, it's best to get a breed that wasn't bred for protection, such as retrievers. GSDs, Dobermans, Rottweilers, and bully breeds, while great dogs, aren't the best choice for psych work. Since the Shiloh Shepherd came from GSDs, I imagine that they are along the same lines.



But let's look at a lab for you.

Labs are a very well established breed, so it's easier to find good, responsible breeders. I don't say this as in there are more responsible breeders, but in that there are a lot more breeders period, meaning that they're sort of a 'readily available' breed. You'd still have to find the good breeder among the bad ones, though, so keep that in mind. And since the lab is well established, you know what health issues to look out for, what behavior/temperament to generally expect, etc. Though every lab will be different, you can look at their pedigrees to get an idea of what your pup will likely be. This also helps you find a responsible breeder.

The average size of a lab I believe is about 55-80 pounds, and for height the average I believe is about 22-24 inches.

They aren't always calm, but if you meet their needs and train them to settle they can calm down. They are extremely eager to please and friendly, though.

Regular grooming will decrease shedding amount in any dog, and I don't believe that labs are super heavy shedders to begin with, though someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The right lab (perhaps a line bred specifically for service work) will be just like your Doberman; they prefer exercise every day but are okay to potato on the couch with you and miss their exercise here and there. These are dogs who CAN miss a day or two of exercise, but ideally are exercised everyday.

I'm pretty sure they don't generally have prey drive. They have some birdiness, I think, being water retrievers, but I think that's more of a chase thing than an actual hunting thing. Someone else can give you better information here as I'm not 100% certain on the exact definition of 'prey drive'.

Labs are not generally aggressive and were not bred for protection. They are extremely happy-go-lucky dogs and shouldn't get pulled into your anxiety.

They should be able to do each of the tasks you listed (though bear in mind that grounding is not a task).



So yeah, to summarize - a lab will be your best bet. There's a reason that they're the most common type of service dog :biggrin:

I remember that someone on here wanted to start a saying in the SD community, which I agree with: "There's a lab for that". Seriously.
Max - shih tzu/poodle- SDiT  Max's Facebook Page
Kirby - Pied Cockatiel - official bird of SDC
My YouTube channel (I love receiving feedback on my training methods!)

Offline Punktestern

  • Loquacious Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 519
  • The amazing bouncing ferret!
  • Location: San Rafael, CA
  • Mood: Vulcans have no moods
  • SDC interest: curious
Re: Prospect Breeds
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2017, 12:03:19 PM »
Have you given any more thought to how you are going to manage your Dobe with a new prospect puppy? With a reactive dog in the house, even if you get a breed that's not prone to reactivity, you could end up causing it in your pup if you're not careful.

That being said, labs and goldens are probably hands-down the best choice to start with in most cases.
Canine Welfare/Training Technician - Guide Dogs for the Blind
Cambrie - Yellow Lab Female - Guide Dogs for the Blind - Completed Phase 8 of 8 - Waiting for a Match!
PM me for Holiday Cards!

Offline holladogs

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Mood: Okay
  • SDC interest: waiting
Re: Prospect Breeds
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2017, 12:48:15 PM »
Thank you everyone for the input! I will definitely consider a labrador although I have heard many times they are aggressive and since I have never owned one before, they are not my top choice.  I had read that shiloh shepherds were bred as service dogs but I am not sure if that is true. I didn't realize they were so big, either!

My doberman is very friendly to the right dog. I will most likely get a female puppy. He is friendly with females. He is only aggressive towards male dogs occasionally. Rarely while he is on leash and not usually at home. He just isn't a dog I would let off-leash with another male, though. He can also be separated from dogs at home.

Offline missythewriter

  • Active Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 320
  • Mood: Brain fog
  • SDC interest: waiting
Re: Prospect Breeds
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2017, 01:00:50 PM »
I've never met an aggressive Lab in my life. Labs are the happiest, bubbliest, cheery dogs you will ever see in your life. They love people, they love dogs, they love kids, they love balls, they love running, they honestly just love life. And they are amazing psych dogs because of it. They don't get sucked into or feed into their handler's anxiety like Shepherds are prone to do. Those dogs are bred for service work. I don't think Shilohs are.

Some Shiloh Shepherd breeders breed their dogs to have characteristics of a service dog, but because they aren't even an official breed yet--no breed standard--they are a lot more unreliable than a Lab. I wouldn't recommend any type of Shepherd--even one bred for service dog work--for a psychiatric service dog. They would be much better suited for mobility or medical alert. But psych work? They would likely become stressed or protective with your anxiety or depression.

Offline Summertime.and.Azkaban

  • Resident Terrier Wrangler
  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Posts: 1948
  • Holli and Azkaban
  • Location: North Carolina USA
  • Mood: Tired
  • SDC interest: owner-trainer
Re: Prospect Breeds
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2017, 01:07:18 PM »
I've met aggressive labs but never one that was socialized and raised with enough human interaction.
-Azkaban, Rayner, and Chewy-
"I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights" -Desmond Tutu
PM me about being pen pals or receiving a holiday card in the mail!

Offline Moonsong

  • Dog Training Student
  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2270
  • My SD is my Super (hero) Dog
  • Location: Arizona USA
  • Mood: Sad
  • SDC interest: owner-trainer
Re: Prospect Breeds
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2017, 01:14:18 PM »
Aggression is definitely NOT a common lab trait. I'm not sure who you heard that from, but labs are actually known for being happy-go-lucky, friendly, accepting, etc...

Of course, it's possible for labs to be aggressive. It's possible for ANY dog under the sun or moon to be aggressive. But it's a lot, a LOT less likely with a lab. They are predisposed towards cheerful, friendliness.


This is assuming that you adopt a well-bred one, though. I believe I've heard that there are some bad breeding lines of goldens that produce aggressive goldens? In any case, a mentally sound, well bred lab who was raised right should not come out aggressive.
Max - shih tzu/poodle- SDiT  Max's Facebook Page
Kirby - Pied Cockatiel - official bird of SDC
My YouTube channel (I love receiving feedback on my training methods!)

Offline OlgatheGSD

  • Loquacious Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 745
  • Michelle and Olga
  • Location: OR
  • Mood: Brain fog
  • SDC interest: owner-trainer
Re: Prospect Breeds
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2017, 01:46:16 PM »
While I've met a fair share of aggressive labs, all of those were not bred or raised well. If you find a breeder with the goals of breeding a mentally and physically sound dog, not a breeder who looks only for gun dog traits (some don't have a clear understanding of mental health with their dogs), you will find a quality Lab. There is nothing wrong with contacting a breeder and asking for a young adult who was returned or never adopted out. I'd pick a young adult over a puppy because the hard part is over and it's a clear yes or no if the dog is fit to be a prospect.

I've never met an aggressive Golden and I prefer them to Labs. My goldens had a wild child phase for about a year and after that they were the most gentle and eager to please dogs I've ever met. My next SD will most likely be a golden. Ive had 3 from puppy to adult as well as experience boarding and grooming even more. All were the biggest sweethearts. This is my personal preference and my experience has definitely shaped my fondness. I'm sure if I had the same experience with Labs I would feel the same way.

I also agree that guard or protection breeds are not for psych SD's nor the inexperienced. It is far too easy creating a wash out with a shepherd than it is with a retriever. Shepherds are reactive naturally and have been bred to do their own thing, like home defence without a handler around. Labs tend to want to please their person any given moment of the day and they tunnel vision onto you. You want that in a psych dog, and in an SD in general.
Potato quality human with a smarter-than-you-honor-student dog.

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Olga-the-GSD-1632466706793262/

Offline Ariel

  • Scruffmaster Extraordinaire
  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Posts: 4417
  • Location: North Carolina, USA
  • Mood: Cynical
  • SDC interest: SD partner
Re: Prospect Breeds
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2017, 01:52:19 PM »
Aggression is definitely NOT a common lab trait. I'm not sure who you heard that from, but labs are actually known for being happy-go-lucky, friendly, accepting, etc...

I would sadly disagree. That said, I know A LOT of pet quality BYB Labs. A Lab from a breeder who not only health tests and titles in sports/disciplines that prove the dog can work well with one or many people but is open and honest about their lines and very intentional and careful in their pairings should not be producing aggression or fearfulness as an inherent genetic trait. Raising does have some to do with it and stressing a young puppy with a propensity for nervousness or fear aggression can definitely bring it out much more quickly or strongly. True pure genetic aggression happens with some degree of frequency in poorly bred Labs too but true aggression without an actual worthwhile trigger in any breed is something I'd euthanize quickly for because it can't really be worked with.

Quote
I've never met an aggressive Golden and I prefer them to Labs.

I have definitely met aggressive Goldens also. Same issues as Labs. Again to really truly research breeders and not be taken by nice words. Check with people who do not have anything to gain in the situation on their opinions on the breeder(s) and their dogs to get an unbiased opinion. With such large, popular breeds it's not difficult to splinter off and find breeders breeding dogs with temperaments and/or health that in no way should be bred for. I saw a website about a year ago of someone breeding "Personal Protection Golden Retrievers" and specifically breeding for aggression. It does happen, and when idiots decide to capitalize on it, we have issues. Even more issues when poorly bred dogs from idiot breeders fall into the hands of people who don't know how to look for a breeder and don't have a clue what to do with the pup they're given.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 01:55:24 PM by Ariel »
Jubilee - Service Dog - German Wirehaired Pointer
Jubi's FB page!
In Loving Memory of Service Dog Saxon (6/5/13-12/2/15)

Offline Summertime.and.Azkaban

  • Resident Terrier Wrangler
  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Posts: 1948
  • Holli and Azkaban
  • Location: North Carolina USA
  • Mood: Tired
  • SDC interest: owner-trainer
Re: Prospect Breeds
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2017, 01:55:08 PM »
I've met awful, poorly bred labs that are emotionally unstable in more ways than aggression. But we've all met poorly bred unstable dogs that have come out of reckless BYB.

A well bred lab will have no tendency towards aggression. He will be a jovial, affectionate dog who adores each individual he meets. He will generally cohabitate well with other dogs (especially if he is older and has been hunted and expected to respect other dog's work in the field) and will be eager to please.

He will be food and ball motivated in ways that makes training conductive and easier, he will not require excessive jollying to put all of his enthusiasm into a task.

Also, please do not subscribe to the myth that black labs (or any color lab) is untrainable, too crazy for service work or literally any different than any other color lab. Do not pick a lab for color unless you have a specific color you are set on and you're willing to wait several litters for the puppy with your desired color/temperament combination to come along.

Breeders who breed for "silver, white or charcoal" are not breeding to breed standard and should be avoided. A breeder who is breeding Labradors to standard and without breed mixing will only produce three colors, black, chocolate and yellow.

Do not buy from a breeder who breeds specifically for chocolate or tells you the color of their dogs are "rare" and worth more money. Chocolates happen at random but having whole litters and an excess of chocolates is usually a sign of color breeding and not breeding for the betterment of the breed.

I'm sure you understand the necessities behind healtg clearances but mak sure your breeder checks the hips of all their  breeding stock and theg have good OFA scores. Labs are prone to hip dysplasia and making sure your dog is structurally sound and taking preventive measures in puppyhood can prevent your dog from an early retirement.

-Azkaban, Rayner, and Chewy-
"I am not interested in picking up crumbs of compassion thrown from the table of someone who considers himself my master. I want the full menu of rights" -Desmond Tutu
PM me about being pen pals or receiving a holiday card in the mail!