Author Topic: Does anyone know anything about this book?  (Read 4262 times)

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Offline sunshineone

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Does anyone know anything about this book?
« on: August 09, 2012, 01:02:49 PM »
http://www.amazon.com/Behavior-Adjustment-Training-Frustration-Aggression/dp/1617810509/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1344535200&sr=1-1&keywords=BAT

I have heard about the type of training here. I am intending to get Control Unleashed when it comes to Kindle.
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Offline Tameesha

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Re: Does anyone know anything about this book?
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2012, 01:38:12 PM »
I know Kirsten has mentioned it a few times on here so I bought the book but it's my next book to read (I'm still finishing CU:PP). But with moving I probably won't start it for at least a month.
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Offline Kirsten

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Re: Does anyone know anything about this book?
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2012, 02:16:42 PM »
It's very good if you have a reactive dog.  It would not be as good as Control Unleashed if you have an air head or unfocused dog.  The purpose of BAT is to rehab and learn to manage reactive dogs.  Remember that reactivity cannot be cured.  It's a problem arising out of weak temperament.  But you can learn to manage it, minimize it, and make the dog a whole lot more comfortable in a larger variety of situations.

I have the kindle addition.  The illustrations are difficult to use, but better than the typical Kindle book which is often just missing the illustrations entirely.

BAT deals mostly with a certain kind of desensitization.  The objective is to get very good at reading your dog and being able to identify when the dog is stressed, but not over threshold.  That is the state you want the dog to be in when you do this work.  Like CU, it operates largely on the Premack principle, which can be very counter intuitive to trainers unused to it.  The basic premise is that you give the dog what he wants as reinforcement for a desired de-stressing (not distressing) response.  For example, if the dog gives a calming signal, such as sniffing or shaking off or looking at you, you immediately leave and reinforce.  That's the part that seems counter intuitive.  If the dog is distressed about something, it seems somehow wrong to suddenly run away from it.  But what the dog wants is to increase distance between itself and the stressor.  Reactive behavior is a distance increasing strategy.  If the dog bluffs and convinces the scary thing that the dog is tough, then hopefully it will leave or at least leave the dog alone.  That is the strategy behind reactivity.  In this technique, you are teaching the dog a different strategy to increase distance.  Once the dog starts to feel he has real control over increasing distance (because reactivity isn't often successful), his stress level will slowly start to drop and he'll be comfortable closer to the stressor for longer periods of time.  Using a life reward also draws on classical conditioning.  You're giving the dog what he wants most in the world at that instant in time.  Imagine the visceral emotional response.  That becomes associated with the trigger and the trigger actually comes to trigger an autonomic response (classical conditioning) like Pavlov's dogs salivating at the sound of a bell.

CU will work with reactive dogs because of its similarity to BAT.  However, CU will also work equally as well with a distracted dog, a hyper dog, or an air headed adolescent.  BAT isn't intended for these kinds of non-reactive dogs.
Kirsten and Tardis
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Offline sunshineone

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Re: Does anyone know anything about this book?
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2012, 03:37:10 PM »
Then what I am needing is CU... We have a bit of tweaking needed with some adolecent airhead and herding breed stubborness.

I thought the fear part might be helpful. She is afraid of things touching her in the car for good reason. If a plastic sack brakes free, she gets scared and pulls her car tether as far as it will go. Back in April a rock smashed the back window of the van while we were driving by someone mowing grass. She does not like shiny objects for the same reason. She will also sit when we come to storm drain grates and make herself twice as heavy. She does not reason we could just go around.
She is not reactive or aggressive so I am glad you explained things Kirsten. You can't get a good feel about books with the 20 page sneak peek.

So which of the CU should I get first at 14 months old?
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Offline sunshineone

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Re: Does anyone know anything about this book?
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2012, 03:42:08 PM »
I will probably pick BAT up later though just because I am interested in dog behavior and psych. Might be helpful for my friend's heathern dogs he let get feral.
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Offline Tuttleturtle

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Re: Does anyone know anything about this book?
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2012, 03:55:25 PM »
It's worth note that even though you can't get it though amazon, you can get a version of Control Unleashed that you can read on the kindle :smile:. That's how I'm reading my copy.
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Offline sunshineone

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Re: Does anyone know anything about this book?
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2012, 07:04:02 PM »
How do that Tuttleturtle?
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Offline k1maplewd

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Re: Does anyone know anything about this book?
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2012, 07:15:58 PM »
Kirsten speaking from experience what you stated about BAT only working for reactive dogs is not true.  I use BAT with all manner of dogs- unsure puppies, distracted/over stimulated adolescents, unsure adults in novel situations.  For example right now I have a dog in for B&T and she has a very low frustration tolerance but isn't truly reactive.  She's just impulsive (she's a 7m old lab) and when isn't given instant gratification gets frustrated.  I've been using BAT with her in various settings during sessions this week to successfully build her frustration tolerance and widen her repertoire of acceptable alternate behaviors that aren't barking, getting mouthy or otherwise having a mental meltdown.  I've worked with this dog less than 8hrs over the past 4 days and already she is vastly, vastly improved.  Vastly. 

I've also recently worked on BAT set ups in my puppy classes to help build puppies confidence with novel stimulus and encourage stress tolerance and also encourage appropriate behavior for greetings with other dogs and people.  I also like using BAT in puppy classes to build that solid basic trust in a puppy that their owner will keep them safe, respect their communication and that if they are ever in trouble all they need to do is come to their owner and the owner will fix it, the dog never need to fix it themselves.  Again seen excellent results. 

So please don't think that BAT only has a specific use for reactive dogs.  It was designed in the field for reactive dogs, but it's successful uses are much wider spread than simply that. 
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Offline Tuttleturtle

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Re: Does anyone know anything about this book?
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2012, 07:21:38 PM »
Here is the relevant link for the puppy program and here is for the normal non-puppy one. :smile: This book you can buy and you transfer to your kindle with a micro usb cable (that's also the charging cable that you can plug into the computer) and put in the documents folder on your kindle, and then it'll show up on your kindle. It also says that on the website there.
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Offline k1maplewd

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Re: Does anyone know anything about this book?
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2012, 07:24:12 PM »
Also my favorite part of BAT, what I love about it is that it empowers dogs.  It gives dogs the control they are seeking in healthy ways when they are unsure, afraid or stressed.  I have done YEARS of classical conditioning/systematic desensitization with fearful, reactive or aggressive dogs and have never seen such massive empowerment and confidence in dogs that they can safely control their anxieties and fears as I do after even just 1-2 sessions of BAT with the dogs.  Dogs learn, they internalize that there are more tools in their tool box, more coping strategies than just barking/lunging/attacking. 

With dogs that aren't reactive, they learn that there are coping strategies that will be respected so that they never need to resort to barking/lunging/aggression.  BAT puts the dog back in control in situations where they would otherwise feel beyond or out of their control.  And it gives them healthy, safe ways to be in that control. 
Katrin & Tom

Offline sunshineone

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Re: Does anyone know anything about this book?
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2012, 07:41:05 PM »
BAT the program seems intriguing. I will look into it Katrin later and online. I more so need information on whether the book will fulfill my training needs now with Juno or would CU be better. I know the CU book has Meesha´s thumbs up approval.
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Offline k1maplewd

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Re: Does anyone know anything about this book?
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2012, 08:03:09 PM »
the book is very good and written for the lay person.  there are sections for trainers/behavior consultants but the vast majority of the book is written to be understood and implemented by the average dog owner.  the BAT website I think it's www.functionalrewards.com also has good info and free handouts for down load.  there is also I think a good BAT yahoo group that the person who developed BAT, Grisha Stewart is on. 
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Offline Kirsten

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Re: Does anyone know anything about this book?
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2012, 01:47:16 AM »
Here's the thing, comparing the two books, BAT and CU.

BAT is written to the person dealing with a reactive dog.  That is the target audience of that book.

CU is written to the person dealing with a distracted or unconfident dog, specifically an agility competitor.  There is some mention of reactivity, but it is not the focus of the book.

Both books discuss similar techniques of functional rewards, Premack, etc.  You will discover some overlap between the books.  But the applications and the target audiences are different.  If you have a reactive dog and that is what you want to work on, then get BAT.  It is written specifically for you.  If you have a distracted dog and want to help them focus, then get CU.

Yes, you can extrapolate techniques from BAT to use in other situations, but those other situations aren't actually addressed in the book.  The specific techniques, not theory, but techniques, in BAT are for reactive dogs.  A reactive dog's objective is to increase distance between themselves and the object of their reaction.  Running away from that thing is highly rewarding to a reactive dog.  When the dog gives a desired response, such as a calming signal, running away makes that calming signal successful in the objective.  It reinforces responding to a stressor with a calming signal.  Running away from a squirrel or cat that a dog is obsessed with will not be rewarding to that dog.  What is a functional reward for one issue, is not a functional reward for the opposite issue.  Same/similar theory, two different applications.
Kirsten and Tardis
In loving memory of Cole (1/11/99 - 6/26/12)  He gave me back my life.

"The one absolute, unselfish friend that man can have in this selfish world -- the one that never proves ungrateful or treacherous -- is his dog." -George G. Vest