Author Topic: Food allergy update  (Read 177 times)

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Offline OlgatheGSD

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Food allergy update
« on: February 13, 2018, 10:41:18 AM »
Per the advice of Olga's veterinary dietician (I can't believe I just typed that) we got on a vegan diet and it has cleared up every single allergy symptom within 3 weeks. Her stink and oily skin are gone, her ears produce less wax, her feet are beautifully white and grey skinned without blood or lava spots, but all of that came at a price. She lost muscle mass and the ability to recover from our play sessions. I've had to change how she works out by doing very short bursts and hoping she doesn't get sore.

Since the vegan diet, which is Natural Balance Vegetarian blend, was never meant to be a full time fix, I've been testing with various proteins to try and add animals back into her diet. As it stands, she cannot work properly on strictly vegan. She is just too physically weak. I've been adding cooked meats on top of her kibble to test allergies since I know the kibble is safe and I can test single ingredients.

Criteria for passing grade:
Clear feet
Hair rentention
Clear ears
Stank gone
Zero hot spots
Muscle gain
Energy stable all day
Clear eyes
Solid, well formed poop
Little to no itchiness

Food trials so far:
Plain yogurt: PASS, but muscle mass did not recover
Eggs: PASS, but oily fur remained
Ground beef: FAIL (2 days in, developed large hot spots, bloody feet, and hair loss)

Next up is:
Ground lamb
Ground buffalo
Ground pork
Salmon (yep. She will be getting cooked salmon steaks. Spoiled..)
Rabbit
Elk
Deer
Kangaroo

I'd like to keep this thread for my own records as well as suggestions on how to do this. Right now she is in the recovery phase after the beef, she will be read for the lamb in about 5 to 7 days. Thank god she has an iron stomach. She seems more than happy to be eating human quality food from her new slow feeder. She can no longer literally inhale food. Muwahahahaha!

I forgot to add, for quantity I give her 2 cups am, 1 cup at noon, 2 cups pm on just the vegan food, and on the food trials she gets 1 cup kibble with half cup prepared meat am, 1 cup kibble noon, 1 cup kibble pm with half cup prepared meat pm.

She does best on protein values between 25%-32% as she retains muscle easier and recovers quickly. By recovering I mean she doesn't show signs of being sore from a play session with the ball. We warm up with a walk, I throw the chuck it a ways about 10 times, making her rest between throws, then we walk a couple blocks after as a cool down. The vegan food is 20% protein and she shows signs of soreness from her moans of pleasure while I massage her back and butt and hesitancy to jump on the bed. Usually (on higher protein food) she doesn't have that problem at all. I've had to very carefully monitor and adjust our workouts because of this freaking vegan food. Wish my luck for our future endeavors.

So long story short, I do not believe dogs can thrive on vegan food and by god my dog is going to thrive even if I go broke from buying salmon for the rest of her life.
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Offline SandyStern

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Re: Food allergy update
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2018, 01:23:00 PM »
Years ago someone recommended that I add canned salmon, bones and all, to the kibble for a rescue dog.  Worked like a charm.  I don't think you necessarily need to cook Olga salmon steaks, although she is certainly worth it. 

If she could tolerate yogurt, maybe you could try one of those protein powders derived from milk (isn't there a goat's milk powder)?

But assuming that protein sources are similar if the animal is in a similar taxonomic group, maybe you should reorder the list to start with proteins that are far removed from what you know she can't tolerate:

Rabbit
Salmon
Kangaroo

These seem greatly removed from the beef that she can't have, right? I'd start there. I'd put buffalo last, since they are close to cows. Elk and deer are similar enough that if she can tolerate one, she can probably tolerate the other.

Lamb
Ground pork
Elk
Deer
Buffalo

I sure hope you can find something that works and won't require you to sell one of your kids. 

Offline RedSonia29

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Re: Food allergy update
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2018, 01:42:28 PM »
Years ago someone recommended that I add canned salmon, bones and all, to the kibble for a rescue dog.  Worked like a charm.  I don't think you necessarily need to cook Olga salmon steaks, although she is certainly worth it. 

If she could tolerate yogurt, maybe you could try one of those protein powders derived from milk (isn't there a goat's milk powder)?

But assuming that protein sources are similar if the animal is in a similar taxonomic group, maybe you should reorder the list to start with proteins that are far removed from what you know she can't tolerate:

Rabbit
Salmon
Kangaroo

These seem greatly removed from the beef that she can't have, right? I'd start there. I'd put buffalo last, since they are close to cows. Elk and deer are similar enough that if she can tolerate one, she can probably tolerate the other.

Lamb
Ground pork
Elk
Deer
Buffalo

I sure hope you can find something that works and won't require you to sell one of your kids.

I was thinking exactly the same thing as Sandy on the order of foods. Try the bunny and fish first because they're easier to get, then the kangaroo. If Olga is allergic to cow she is likely to have problems with other meats from similar animals.

I think Chewy has canned rabbit, salmon, and roo available, but I can't guarantee the quality and purity (they may be canned on machinery that processes red meats as well). Plus there's some salt mixed in.

Beware: Salmon fish farts are the WORST. I gave salmon to Bowie once and it was three days of THE nastiest farts on the planet. He stunk me out of a Big O Tires once, then planted another one in my car about 20 minutes later. It required me to pull over to get some fresh air and gag a little.
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Offline OlgatheGSD

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Re: Food allergy update
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2018, 05:01:23 PM »
Omg sonia lol I've never given straight salmon to Olga but I given her proplan salmon and she stunk to high heaven on it. I have suspicions she might be allergic to chicory root as well since it was the only common denominator in all of the kibble we've had outside of the vegan one and it is known for causing skin irritation on paws of dogs and hands and feet of humans. So salmon isn't on the Fail list until I can independently test it to confirm.

I'll do canned salmon! Thanks for the tip!! That will save me a ton of money. If the salmon doesn't work I'll contact the meat rabbit breeder and check out his stock. They advertised for a fresh litter recently. I may have to raise it a while then kill it. Oh joy.
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Offline mommagrizzly

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Re: Food allergy update
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2018, 05:12:44 PM »
I may have to raise it a while then kill it. Oh joy.

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Offline ScootersMom

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Re: Food allergy update
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2018, 08:04:18 PM »
I wonder about other fish.  Do you have a sport fisher-person in the family?  Is there anything they might catch you could try? 

Dad used to love to catch trout, but could not cool it worth a darn.  Mom refused (she didn't care for it).

I remember a friend taking all dad caught for their cats and dogs.

Offline OlgatheGSD

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Re: Food allergy update
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2018, 08:35:28 PM »
Trout and salmon from the PNW carries a deadly parasite (or bacteria, I can't remember) that will kill dogs. It almost always dies while cooking but I would rather play it safe with Atlantic salmon. Plus I despise scaling and gutting fish. I would rather pluck a bird lol

I did think about larger fish, like halibut or tuna, but I worry about mercury levels getting toxic for her. Salmon eat primarily bugs so they are safe.

I have big game hunters in my family, mainly elk. A bull will last all year if made into sausage and jerky.
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Offline ScootersMom

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Re: Food allergy update
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2018, 08:19:22 AM »
Trout and salmon from the PNW carries a deadly parasite (or bacteria, I can't remember) that will kill dogs. It almost always dies while cooking but I would rather play it safe with Atlantic salmon. Plus I despise scaling and gutting fish. I would rather pluck a bird lol

I did think about larger fish, like halibut or tuna, but I worry about mercury levels getting toxic for her. Salmon eat primarily bugs so they are safe.

I have big game hunters in my family, mainly elk. A bull will last all year if made into sausage and jerky.

Good to know about the PNW fish!
We have 3 trout farms in state parks within 90 minutes of where I live.  When I think of trout, I think of those. 

Lots of dimes plugged into the fish food dispensers over the years.  Plus, the lovely smell of Purina fish food pellets.   I used to keep my son,  now 22, in a harness with a leash when we went there.  He kept wanting to reach in and try to grab a fish. I could just see him falling in.  Heck, he did once.  Thank goodness my daughter didn't try to grab them as well.

Time to start looking for the marked down frozen fish at the supermarket!

Offline Suse

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Re: Food allergy update
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2018, 11:52:11 PM »
Oh dear, I do apologize,

I have not been following the links on SDC for quite awhile, only sporadically... like the Keto diet.  So I am way behind on the dietary problems of your dog.  So do forgive me if I do not understand the background and problems.

Darn, I wish I knew what has been going on with you.

Just to let you know what food challenges we have had...  My SD came close to dying eating kibble..... any kibble... hundreds of dollars worth of every kind recommended by the vet.

He tested allergic for chicken, beef, etc. in kibble.. He lost 1/3 of his body weight, nothing stayed in or down, he would not drink, quit eating, was on IV fluids, etc.  Diarrhea all over the place... ick.  I really thought he was going to die.  Not to mention I spent over $2,000 in vet bills and lab tests.

I finally called his breeder and discovered that she had fed high quality raw for three generations back. She had been grinding her own meat/veg/fruit mix for years.  My vet thought raw was the worst thing possible.  The breeder suggested one ingredient of raw meat at a time, starting with chicken thighs, bone in. 

What?   He had tested allergic to chicken!   But it turned out when we tried it raw chicken was fine (Boy isn't that confusing.  Raw chicken, no solution, with raw bone ok, but not processed chicken in kibble?)

So, any meat I mention from here on out is raw meat. Apparently cooking destroys the necessary enzymes he needs.

Anyway, through much trial and error, we have fund what works for him.  It took him over three months to gain his body weight back, and now eats raw chicken, beef, lamb, elk, venison, pork, fish, etc. 

He has developed a high sensitivity to things he is sensitive to. He absolutely refuses to eat raw turkey! (I do not know why - is it dipped in some sort of chlorine solution, or???)   He eats and digests raw chicken just fine  (unless so far it is one cheap kind I found in Colorado).  He Loves local farm bred pork, but gets very sick on the grocery store pork  that says 'extra tender' which has added up to 12% added solution. (That apparently has chemicals which tenderize it - people actually pay more for it!). He can eat the grocery store pork that says 'prime' and is just 100% pork as many grocery stores have.

He gets sick on, and now totally backs up from or throws up: grocery store beef liver, kidneys, etc.  He will joyfully eat wild venison, grass fed lamb, beef, pork, etc. liver, kidneys, etc.   Very strange.  How does he know the difference between 'commercial feed lot' and 'wild'  or 'grass fed' ?   

Oh, just to say... he gets sick on any meat that has any added solution.  So, for example the Walmart here has frozen chicken that has 'added solution/water' with something in it.  I have found that most frozen chicken anywhere here has something added.   But he is ok with chicken that has 'retained solution'  which is apparently very different! Normally the retained is just in the regular fresh meat area.

Yikes, I have gone on and on.  Not sure if it made any sense, or is helpful.  It is so hard to figure out what our dogs do well on...(or sometimes ourselves).   Best wishes and happy healing :smile:

Offline MJ

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Re: Food allergy update
« Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 11:30:45 AM »
Be careful feeding "buffalo" to a dog with an allergy to beef. Much of the meat labeled buffalo is actually beefalo (bison/cattle).