Author Topic: Disabled Chicago cop denied pit bull service dog launches landmark ...  (Read 7617 times)

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Offline responsiblek9

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Re: Disabled Chicago cop denied pit bull service dog launches landmark ...
« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2011, 01:00:15 AM »
Man denied 'service dog' seeks legal action
http://www.chronicletimes.com/story/1798008.html


Sak and his wife, Peggy Leifer, moved to Aurelia in November to live near Leifer's ailing mother, Heddy Engdahl, an 87-year-old long time resident of Aurelia. Sak was accompanied by his service dog, Snickers, who is certified with the National Service Animal Registry.
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Offline Ilghaus

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Re: Disabled Chicago cop denied pit bull service dog launches landmark ...
« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2011, 01:38:06 AM »
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the National Service Animal Registry

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Offline responsiblek9

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Re: Disabled Chicago cop denied pit bull service dog launches landmark ...
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2011, 04:19:21 PM »
DOG CONCERNS: City Sued After Banning Service Dog
http://www.whotv.com/news/who-story-service-dog-banned-aurelia-122311,0,6167404.story

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City Council member Jeff Bowen refused to answer questions about whether he thought the City was in violation of the Americans with Disabilities act. "Well I guess the attorneys will have to figure that out" Bowen told us, "I don't have any comment."
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Offline Magesteff

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Re: Disabled Chicago cop denied pit bull service dog launches landmark ...
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2011, 06:43:04 PM »
After reading the miost recent link I have to ask a question in response to something the owner/handler said:

Quote
Sak says Snickers is very well trained, and has never hurt anyone. "He has never even growled at anybody. The kids come home from school and would stop and play with him." he says

Question: Is this a safe action? I would think this puts excessive stress ont he dog's neck. SHouldn't the dog be wearing a harness that the owner can grab if the dog is pulling the owner to a table or chair?
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Offline responsiblek9

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Re: Disabled Chicago cop denied pit bull service dog launches landmark ...
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2011, 06:50:33 PM »
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says he needs the dog. "If I fall on my back I'm a turtle. I just don't move." Sak explains, "I grab that collar...He'll pull me over by the table and chairs and I can pick myself up"

 :trx: Yea looking at the pics of the dog who has a boxer type of narrow neck. Sounds like the guy could use a working piece of equipment where the dog could get a lot better leverage to help him up. Some of those Ruff wear webbing type harnesses where you can grab from the side or the soft handle on top would work. :paw: 
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Offline Magesteff

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Re: Disabled Chicago cop denied pit bull service dog launches landmark ...
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2011, 07:06:21 PM »
Thanks Nora, I was having trouble selecting and copying the correct paragraph.
Steffeny, with Hobbes. In memory of Spike (1989 ~ 12/14/2014) my little old gentleman, and Max (9/21/2006 ~ 6/2/2015).  Dog camp postponed until I am in a better situation.
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Offline LolaMarigolda

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Re: Disabled Chicago cop denied pit bull service dog launches landmark ...
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2011, 04:09:45 PM »
After reading the miost recent link I have to ask a question in response to something the owner/handler said:

Quote
Sak says Snickers is very well trained, and has never hurt anyone. "He has never even growled at anybody. The kids come home from school and would stop and play with him." he says

Question: Is this a safe action? I would think this puts excessive stress on the dog's neck. Shouldn't the dog be wearing a harness that the owner can grab if the dog is pulling the owner to a table or chair?

I haven't looked at the clip or any decent pics of the dog.  That said, my APBTs can easily pull 10X their body weight on their collar (we use wider flat buckle collars); same dogs can easily pull 100X their body weight in a pull harness.  Do I recommend letting them do it?  NO.  Have I occasionally had one pull me up a steep sand hill by their collar?  Yep.  Down side:  while these dogs can be incredibly strong, it can be a major (insert correct term for female dog) to know when they are hurting and doing too much of that kind of stuff can be damaging even in the best of situations.  I don't make it a habit & I know what will and wont hurt my dogs.

One article I've read said the dog had real training.  The more I'm reading, I want to bang my head.
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Offline Magesteff

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Re: Disabled Chicago cop denied pit bull service dog launches landmark ...
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2011, 07:16:16 PM »
Just to recap some of the things apparent from the articles:

1. Dog was a pet that was repurposed as a Serivce Dog when the Owner had a stroke.
2. Dog is "certified" through the "National Service Dog Registry."
3. While there is not a specific mention of how the dog was trained, one of the tasks the dog does is to pull the owner/handler to furniture when owner slips/falls out of his chair. Method used to pull - owner grabs the dogs collar, and dog drags owner while owner holds on collar. One would think that this method would eventually cause some type of damage to the dog, as a collar - even a "police issue K9 collar" is not manufactured with pulling tasks in mind.
Steffeny, with Hobbes. In memory of Spike (1989 ~ 12/14/2014) my little old gentleman, and Max (9/21/2006 ~ 6/2/2015).  Dog camp postponed until I am in a better situation.
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Offline Kirsten

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Re: Disabled Chicago cop denied pit bull service dog launches landmark ...
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2011, 08:48:44 PM »
The NSDR certification is a huge red flag.  Their customers have to have some idea that it's just for show since they don't actually have to do anything to get certified but hand over the cash.

"Oh yeah, here's the certificate I bought over the internet to prove my dog was a service dog.  All I had to do to qualify was tell them my dog was a service dog and send in $40."  But you don't hear them saying that.  Because they know they are intentionally misleading people into believing the dog has been tested and certified by some sort of authority.  That's dishonest.
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Offline LolaMarigolda

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Re: Disabled Chicago cop denied pit bull service dog launches landmark ...
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2011, 01:08:22 PM »
The NSDR certification is a huge red flag.  Their customers have to have some idea that it's just for show since they don't actually have to do anything to get certified but hand over the cash.

"Oh yeah, here's the certificate I bought over the internet to prove my dog was a service dog.  All I had to do to qualify was tell them my dog was a service dog and send in $40."  But you don't hear them saying that.  Because they know they are intentionally misleading people into believing the dog has been tested and certified by some sort of authority.  That's dishonest.

I went and looked at the site.  It costs nothing to register, but the certificates and tags do cost.  Then there is the huge difference between being registered and certified.  Huge red flags all the way around.

That said, I saw a piece that said he won, but  I haven't had time to track the info down.
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Offline Kirsten

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« Last Edit: December 28, 2011, 01:18:15 PM by Kirsten »
Kirsten and Tardis
In loving memory of Cole (1/11/99 - 6/26/12)  He gave me back my life.

"The one absolute, unselfish friend that man can have in this selfish world -- the one that never proves ungrateful or treacherous -- is his dog." -George G. Vest

Offline Brian Jones

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Re: Disabled Chicago cop denied pit bull service dog launches landmark ...
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2011, 02:18:26 PM »
Well an injunction is about all they can do quickly in the court system. I really hope both parties have all their ducks in a row when they get to the real hearing. If the city loses they can expect to pay a tidy sum of cash, if Ofc. Sac loses it could cause a lot of SD partners a good bit of grief.

I really hope his attorney has some training records, CGC & OB certs and the like and is just holding them tightly for their defense...

Offline LolaMarigolda

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Re: Disabled Chicago cop denied pit bull service dog launches landmark ...
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2011, 02:27:35 PM »
Different article that states "He was paired at the University of Illinois Medical Center in Chicago with Snickers, who helps him walk, balance and call from help in an emergency, he said."

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Judge-Allows-Pit-Bull-Disabled-Man-to-Reunite-136320353.html#ixzz1hrZZzVBc


Something isn't right here.  Didn't another article say they got the dog as a pup?

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Offline Kirsten

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Re: Disabled Chicago cop denied pit bull service dog launches landmark ...
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2011, 02:58:59 PM »
Right or wrong, I think he would have a stronger case if the dog was trained by a recognized program.  Problem is, he certified it through a sham (the dog was never evaluated, they just declared it an SD on his say so, which is the same thing as him just saying so on his own).

Most owner-trainers do not have their ducks in a row to prove the dog was trained.  That's why I harp on it so much around here.  Just look at the Bronk case.
Kirsten and Tardis
In loving memory of Cole (1/11/99 - 6/26/12)  He gave me back my life.

"The one absolute, unselfish friend that man can have in this selfish world -- the one that never proves ungrateful or treacherous -- is his dog." -George G. Vest

Offline Brian Jones

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Re: Disabled Chicago cop denied pit bull service dog launches landmark ...
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2011, 03:52:59 PM »
I agree Kristen I could not believe how many scamers are out there that you send them cash and they send you a pretty printed piece of paper. I ran up on a few like this when it came to police K9 work also some trainers with less then ideal notions on certifying the team(s). I have been researching and getting my trainers lined up for more than a year now for my pup and I am still very green when it comes to what I need to have to prove myself, do the team right and make sure I show myself as a positive foundation when it comes to SD's. We really don't know Ofc. Sac or what he has been told of SD's, he may think (or may have) a qualified service dog. I would hope being a retired officer he would know or have some foundation on the ADA. The media has only put out tidbits of information and the only thing we really know is that he used a BS online program. I guess we will know in a few months when it goes in front of a judge (hopefully out of that town).