ESA impersonating a PSD ???

[littlebuggy]

I wonder if this has ever come up here...

A long time ago I saw an episode of The Dog Whisperer with Cesar Milan and it was about a lady who considered herself "disabled" because she had anxiety attacks. From everything I've just read in these forums and on various other websites defining emotional support animals as opposed to psychiatric support dogs, it seems to me that it is not approved by the ADA for this lady to be "certifying" her dog as a service animal when really he was an ESA. Now she is allowed to bring her dog into public places (grocery stores, restaurants, etc.) when she technically has no need to, because her dog was not specifically trained to be a service animal, he was simply trained in basic obedience such as any common pet or an ESA.

I find it interesting, especially because I have seen a few posts from folks using these forums that use their dog for emotional support to help with depression and anxiety but have specifically said that they are not considered service dogs.

I just wanted to hear some other opinions or ideas about why this lady is apparently covered by the ADA but those of us under the same circumstances are not.

[fledchen]

If this woman claimed that her dog was certified, chances are the certification came from one of those scam internet certificate mills. They're all over the web, and they've become such a problem that we don't allow links to them anywhere on SDC.
Getting fakers to stop taking their dogs into no-pets places is difficult. They'll keep doing it as long as they can bully store and restaurant employees into allowing them in the store, and they hurt legitimate service dog teams every step of the way.

[Kirsten]

It is possible for a dog to be trained to perform tasks that mitigate severe cases of anxiety, though to a lesser degree depression.  Unfortunately the majority of dogs claimed as PSDs are actually ESAs.  They are there to provide comfort on tap.  The problem is that this doesn't really help the person with the illness.  It's about the same as giving an alcoholic a bottle of booze to keep handy.  Each time the person panics, that panic is reinforced by the dog's positive attention.  It won't treat the underlying cause of the panics, just make it easier and more comfortable to have more of them.

Businesses are permitted to ask what the dog is TRAINED to do as a condition of access.  That's about the only defense out there.

Regarding the Milan episode:  a dog with an aggression problem should:
1.  never be used in public access
2.  not be in the care of someone who is themselves emotionally unstable

There is no cure for aggression, only management.

[Keldrena]

Service dogs can in fact be used for anxiety, it's part of what Figaro is being trained to do, but standing there making you feel better is not a task.

[louie]

I saw that Dog Whisperer episode. The woman's dog was not aggressive. Ceasar was helping her get the dog ready for some sort of PAT. Part of the PAT was in the show - it was kind of a strange one. I imagine she said her dog was then "certified" because of whoever was administering the PAT "certified" it. It was an interesting episode.

[state_of_nowhere]

If I recall correctly, the "SD" was afraid of the public bus.

[Gretl2009]

I am just asking a question here - but - what about a dog who is so in tuned with his or her person that they "sense" an anxiety or panic attack coming on and make attempts to draw their attention out of whatever the source of the panic or anxiety might be and then calming their person down.

I ask because I do have a service dog for my mobility issues; and I do understand the issues regarding people who just want to bring FiFi and Fluffy into public under the guise of being a service dog - however, I have a pet that is so close to me that when I suffer from a panic or anxiety attack, she seems to sense them before I know they are coming; she will paw at me, get in my face and become an incredible pain in the butt to make me focus on her - thereby lessening my panic/anxiety attacks.  And I am curious - since she was not "trained" to do this, but it seems to be a natural ability to her - would that make her an emotional support animal or a psychiatric service animal?? 

I know that with my own anxiety and panic disorder - there have been times that my panic attacks would be so severe that I thought I was having a heart attack - and a few times - the anxiety attacks were so overwhelming because of the post traumatic stress disorder - I have actually hallucinated dangerous situations occurring - so if there were a dog that could lessen or alleviate these kinds of situations - wouldn't that be a service dog?? 

I'm just trying to understand if there really is a clear line between PSD and ESA.  I hope I don't offend anyone. 

~Chris and Gretl 

[paintedmutt]

I'm just trying to understand if there really is a clear line between PSD and ESA.

I'm curious about this as well.  Doesn't it all come down to tasks and the ability to prove in court how your support animal helps you get around in a public setting?

[Spectrum]

Trained tasks make a service dog a service dog.

[Gretl2009]

Trained tasks make a service dog a service dog

My dog's primary task is for balance - so - is she trained to walk or does she do that on her own?  Or is it because she is trained to walk with a harness on that provides me with balance that makes her a service dog? 

I am just playing devils advocate here - and trying to show all sides of this very hot issue because it is not as clear cut as we might like it. 

[springingpups]

My dog's primary task is for balance - so - is she trained to walk or does she do that on her own?  Or is it because she is trained to walk with a harness on that provides me with balance that makes her a service dog? 

Think of what makes it possible for your dog to do balance work - at the bare minimum, there's this:

Walking at a specific position
Remaining aware of where you are and moving with you to remain in position
Wearing a harness and tolerating pressure put on that harness

None of those are natural behaviors for a dog.  The training that your dog has received to make it so that she does these behaviors is what makes her balance work a trained task.

[Keldrena]

I would say that proper alerting is a trained task. With dogs, if you don't reinforce it, it'll die out.

[louie]

This quote  is interesting to me "Walking at a specific position
Remaining aware of where you are and moving with you to remain in position
Wearing a harness and tolerating pressure put on that harness

None of those are natural behaviors for a dog.  The training that your dog has received to make it so that she does these behaviors is what makes her balance work a trained task."

I'm interested because in general I have found this site to be pretty clear that emotional support does not an SD make. Yet, I know of people who have had their dogs trained to seek them out and stay with them when they are in a panic attack or dissociative state - dogs that do not naturally move towards such human distress but naturally move away from that human distress. So, using this logic (I think!) you could say it is a trained task to remain aware of a person's emotional state, move toward that person, lay on that person applying pressure (which is actually helpful in a panic state), and tolerate the emotional distress in order to provide a calming or orienting presence.

I'm stating this in this way because I know many on this site are very clear about task training being vital in defining an SD. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm looking for further clarification...looking for arguments in an effort to further define things in my own mind. Interested in hearing what the difference is....

[responsiblek9]

 
Ok how could you prove this was  trained behavior ?

Most  dogs and even cats are VERY aware of their handlers emotional state. They move toward people in distress that are theirs because it is a sure fire bet they will get attention from the handler such as petting and stroking .
Also many dogs see their owner upset and go to the owner for their own reassurance that their pack leader is ok. This alleviates the dogs own anxiety.
 

So, using this logic (I think!) you could say it is a trained task to remain aware of a person's emotional state, move toward that person, lay on that person applying pressure (which is actually helpful in a panic state), and tolerate the emotional distress in order to provide a calming or orienting presence.

I'm stating this in this way because I know many on this site are very clear about task training being vital in defining an SD. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm looking for further clarification...looking for arguments in an effort to further define things in my own mind. Interested in hearing what the difference is....

[state_of_nowhere]

I'm with responsiblek9 on this one. I have seen people try to make this argument for autism service dogs. "The dog's natural instinct is to move away from distress, so by virtue of the fact that the dog remains with the distressed, autistic child, that is a task." Animals are naturally in tune with their owner's emotions. Their tendency is not to move away, it's to move towards. My cat crawls into my lap when I'm upset, anxious or sad (or just when he's demanding snuggles), but just because he's in tune with my emotional state, does not make him a service animal. Additionally, when he does crawl into my lap when I'm upset, I give him lots of petting and love, which reinforces his behavior. This argument is better for dogs because they work better with reinforcement while cats typically march to the beat of their own drum, but just the same.