How do I convince my parents?

[lindsayloo]

I am looking into getting a Psychiatric Service Dog. Before any of the trauma happened to me, causing my PTSD, I bought a horse, my passion. Being a college student my parents are worried about the costs of having a dog and a horse. I am studying Equine Sciences and I could never sell my horse, but I obviously cannot keep an 1100 lb animal with you at all times, and pulling myself out of flashbacks and nightmares is more tiresome than people imagine.

How do I convince my parents that getting a dog now is the best thing for my mental health? I don't want to put the stress on my support system that I have in the past year.

[Roxie]

Are you an adult or a teen? Are you dependent upon your parents? Or independent?

Your first step is to talk to your Dr.'s and see what they say: are you disabled or not?

How often can you ride your horse?

As a multi-trauma survivor since waaaay before you were an idea, it is my suggestion to learn to first accept and manage your PTSD as best as you can... roll with it, learn to have strong coping skills.

After you have made as much progress as you can through therapy and motivation, then consider a dog. Why would not an ESA work? What is it you need a dog to do for you?

IMO, one needs to master them self before adding a dog or any other crutch. To have a SD you need to have a disability. PTSD is not necessarily a disability.

How long have you had PTSD?

I have never been in a position where I feel I have to "convince" anyone when I want to do something for me.

Why do you feel you have to convince them? What happens if you just proceed with your life and do what you want to do? Why do you need their approval?

What tasks do you want a dog to do for you?

Roxie

[lindsayloo]

I would like to say that Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is a legitimate mental illness and can greatly affect a person's life. The fear can be over-whelming at times and when my attacker is released it can be predicted that a cycle of PTSD will begin again. My own PTSD, and the subsequent depression, anxiety, nightmares, etc. has put me into the hospital. I would have never even looked into a service dog had my Psychologist not brought it up. Being a college student I see a different Psychiatrist every visit I have and have not yet discussed it with an M.D. My psychologist has discussed the advantages of having a service dog. My parents' concerns are the time, stress, and money that will go into a service dog. I have explained to my parents that this dog will not be a pet, but rather another tool in my medical treatment. It will be trained to bring me back from reality during a panic attack, calm my fears in a large public crowd, wake me from nightmares, turn on the lights if I feel like there may be someone in my house, an intruder. I understand what a service dog does and I understand who qualifies and who doesn't qualify for a service dog. Having a horse doesn't necessarily mitigate my problems, as they arise in situations where my horse is not with me. Simply having animal interaction is not what I am looking for. I am looking for something that will allow me to live a more normal life than I have for the past 5 years. I spent my entire life in high school being stalked by someone, increasing my fear little by little, until he finally slipped up and do something horrid enough to land him in jail. When you spend 5 years of your life paranoid that someone is going to present you with another potentially fatal situation, you learn to not trust the world. I understand my PTSD and have taken the steps I have been advised to take to heal, but they are simply not enough. I believe that having a dog would allow me to be able to greater reach the success I would have before I had these hardships placed before me. I cannot control what happened to me, but I can control what I do.
By the time I reach Graduate School I will have to do things like legally change my name, SSN, and attempt to erase myself from public records. I plan to have a certified service dog by then, but I realize that I will need to put around 2 years of training on the dog. I have a dog that I am interested in, a dog from police bloodlines who simply won't make it as a police dog. Obedience training is already something he knows and I will work with a certified dog trainer to begin my service dog training, as well as working with a certified service dog trainer in the area. The problem I am having with my parents is they simply think that I can't handle the responsibility of a service dog. I know why a service dog is an option for me and my problem is changing my parents' view. I think part of it is that they want their daughter to be "normal", something I have never been.
I don't mean to sound extremely defensive, but I can't help but notice that many of the posts on this forum are forcing citizens with mental illnesses to justify their disability. If I will have to justify my disability among the people, who I would think would be on my side, then I'm not sure I even want to be part of this community. Many people with "Invisible Disabilities" have to constantly justify their reasons to the general public, but why do they have to justify those reasons to the people who should be on the same side? From what I have experienced with people with mental illnesses or disabilities, it turns into a contest of who can be more disabled. If a service dog has 3, at the minimum, trained tasks on them and can pass the certification then who are we to question the legitimacy of the severity of the disability? A medical treatment is something that is discussed between your doctor and you, as well as your trainer in a service dog situation and your extended support group. It seems that many people on this forum seem to advocate ESA, but forget that an ESA doesn't help in a situation where they aren't present. I could easily say my horse is a sort of Emotional Support Animal, but if she isn't there when I have my flashbacks and panic attacks, then what good is she?

[Trilby]

Have you contacted or applied to any local service dog organizations? Parents usually want to see you making effort to help yourself, an organization will send you a packet of information for you to sit down and discuss with loved ones.

If interested in owner-training keep in mind that training your own dog is like attempting to pass the bar exam (at least that's what it feels like to me) the odds are all up against you, cost, training, training fails-new dog (homing new dog or adding another), health issues that pop up out of nowhere on a perfectly good candidate, and many more. Just finding a dog that can handle the job is a task.

I'm not going to sugar coat it. Having a dog in public is not always easy, a dog in a store draws a lot of attention! You'll have businesses stopping to ask (and sometimes harass you) if your fully-trained SD is legitimate, kids (and adults believe it or not) will run up to you, bark at you, throw things at and poke your dog + many more. Several people in each and every store will ask you the same questions about SD's - all that is fine until about the second day when it becomes irritating...

What you might want to ask yourself is if you want to deal with all of that added stress or if how you are dealing with life right now sounds easier? Would the benefits of an SD's assistance (for which tasks performed you need) outweigh these negatives? For most of us here that answer is, yes. The help we get, without complaint and with eager joy is worth all the hardship.

If you are considered disabled under the ADA I'd go with an SD org.

[bj2circeleb]

Many many people on this list have severe PTSD, and we are well aware of what it is. I am one of them, and I have had to change my name and live in anonimity for the last 20 years due to severe abuse within the family with no support from any living relative. I am well aware more than you can imagine of what it is like to be abused, threatened and to live in fear. None of my abusers have ever been sentenced and that is another added burden that I have to live with. 

While we agree that talking to doctors is private and between you and them, what happens if you end up in court. Only a court can determine if you are disabled or not and simply having a diagnosis does not make you disabled under the law. This is what we are about, making sure that people will be supported if they ever end up in court. Courts have decided that unless you are so disabled as to be unable to perform activities of daily living then you are not disabled under the law. This is not our version of things, it is the laws version of things. If you don't agree with out view of supporting the law then that is your choice. There are no tests and there are no certifications, but you do need to be prepared to stand up in court and to prove your dogs training and your disability and how it impacts on your ability to perform activities of daily living.

A service dog is not a protection dog and a failed police dog would be the worst choice of dog for anyone with PTSD in particular. These dogs need the best of hte best temperametn and not protection or aggression in them. The dog you are looking at is going to do more to harm your conditon than help or proctect you.  Read this article for more.
http://www.iaadp.org/ptsd.html

We are not a group that simply sugar coats all that you say. If you want us to simply say go and get anay dog it is there to love you and that is OK, then it is no the place for you. We do not and will not beat around the bush in how hard having a service dog is, and nor will we pretend that any dog can be one as research has shown that this is not the case, or that if you train them to do this and this it is as servie dog, because the simple fact is that only a judge in a court of law can determine if you are disabled and if yor dog is a service dog.

Having a service dog in public is not fun and for a significant number of people it can be much worse than the condition themselves. Dogs are not lassies, they will and do make mistakes and they are going to mean that every second person thinks you are public property that they have a right to ask anything at all about you and can do all they like to your dog. the simple fact is thet most people with anxiety disorders are not supported by a service dog as having the dog in public actaully makes their condition worse, not better. There is however a great deal of evidence to support the role ESA play and they are very very important and not lesser than a servicice dog and are very much what many people requrire and ar not an SD. A SD does not and will not sove all of your problems and you do need to be prepared for the problems they will create.  You can legally be asked to leave any public place if your dog is the slightest bit aggressvie, barks or makes any other noise.

the best way to get a service dog is to contact a reputable service dog porgram, but they will not give you an aggressive, protection dog as these dogs are not service dogs.
http://www.iaadp.org/aggression.html

[url=http://www.iaadp.org/criteria.html][http://www.iaadp.org/temperament.html/url]
[url]http://www.iaadp.org/criteria.html]http://www.iaadp.org/criteria.html][http://www.iaadp.org/temperament.html/url]
[url]http://www.iaadp.org/criteria.html
http://www.iaadp.org/attack.htm

[Rovingrebel]

I live with someone with Severe PTSD onto the disassociation scale. She has gotten one dog from a program and had her second privately trained for her. She had to have not been in the hospital for at least two years before the trainers considered her someone who could effectively partner with and care for a service dog.

[state_of_nowhere]

Hi lindsayloo. 

Let me say that we are a very friendly bunch and we are also a very honest bunch. Sometimes this honesty is misinterpreted, but I can assure you everyone means well. You made reference to justifying your disability. No one will ever ask you to do that here, however, as a group, we do like to look out for each other and stick together (more and less) since we all have key things in common.

As was mentioned, you do have to meet the legal definition of disabled to qualify for a service dog. I'm not questioning whether you do or not, I'm just re-stating. It is something to think about - how would you defend your case in court if you were ever challenged for using a service dog? "Disabled" is a legal definition.

It sounds like your psychologist is familiar with task-trained service dogs for those with psychiatric disabilities. Many psychologists are not. They use the term "service animal" interchangeably with "therapy animal" and "emotional support animal". From your posts, it sounds like you know the difference as well. It is great that you have a professional on your side.

I have a history of depression and anxiety. At times it was truly disabling, but I am happy to say that isn't any long. I feel it is very important to learn all the tools and coping skills you can in order to help mitigate the effects of your PTSD. Meds, therapy, etc. There will be times when the dog won't be able to go with you. There will be times when the dog may be sick or when you're between service dogs after retiring one. You don't want the dog to be a crutch because psychiatric service dogs must have a very stable temperament in order to avoid a "codependent" relationship with the dog. These are all things to thing about.

You mentioned a dog from police lines. Having a dog that comes from strong working lines is important for a service dog, but I would be concerned about the dog becoming too overprotective. One of the things to consider with a psych SD (PSD) is that the dog must be calm when you are not. If you are experiencing a dissociative episode, the dog cannot interpret that as danger and resort to trying to "protect" you. Temperament, health, etc are all important to consider with a PSD. Do you know of a trainer who can help you with PSD tasks? I would strongly urge you to look into a program trained dog. There are a few with great reputations that work specifically with training PSDs.

As to your original question, convincing your parents, I would provide them with literature and documentation. Apply or request info from a few different programs. Will you be living at home? Another thing to consider is college. Will you be attending? Living on campus? Who will be expected to pay for the dog's care, food, supplies, etc? If you're parents are expected to do that, then that may be a financial responsibility that cannot or do not want to take on.

Hopefully this helps give you some more to consider while making this decision. 

ETA: Sorry for mistakes. Let me know if anyting isn't clear. My brain is mush today!

[Roxie]

Discusses my personal experience with PTSD and causes. (Trying to help Lindsay understand she is not alone)







Lindsay!

Settle down! We are your selected support group!

There is no such thing as a certified Service Dog. You are grossly minimizing many of us by suggesting we don't understand PTSD! We do! We live it! Some of us have "lived it" longer than others! Like a half century or more!

We are trying to help you with suggestions that have been successful, and by asking questions to understand what and why you want an SD.

I will never waste your time by sugar-coating what I say to you or anyone else... I respect you and them and care too much to be wishy-washy and indirect with my discussion.

Just because a person has a diagnosis of a medical or psychiatric condition does not make them disabled under law. In order to have a SD for public access, or to qualify for protection under Fair Housing, you have to have a disability under the legal terms. Not necessarily what you want it to be.

You are still very new at PTSD and recovery. You have a very long way to go. A dog can't be magic for your recovery: you must recover to the point the dog will enhance your life by mitigating your disability through performing trained tasks.

What I have learned from having PTSD, Major Depression, Paranoid Schizophrenia, anxiety, borderline personality, dissociative episodes, and now Alzheimers is that one simply must take charge and responsibility for their recovery before they add a dog in the mix. I have learned to use each mental illness as an asset in my life that brings me reward and sometimes inspires others. Over time, you will be able to do this too!

I am speaking as not only a person with multiple chronic and severe mental illnesses, but also as a woman with advanced degrees and numerous certifications in teaching learning, leadership and empowerment services for mentally ill persons, peer support, and conducting research in the area of mental health services. I also have beeen a successful lobbyist for state legislative changes re: SD's. Plus I have been an advocate for persons with disabilities and mental illness for a span of 40 years. Presently I serve as a state ombudsman for persons with cognitive and physical handicaps, and mental illnesses.

My personal situation was surviving years of horrible sexual abuse and gang rapes asa  pre-schooler, and again from my father who assaulted me and wanted me to marry him in secrecy. (Yep! that still kinda freaks and grosses me out) I was also shot, raped, experienced 22 murders and 4 suicides in my family and close friends before I was 22 years old. I have experienced death of my son, and being orphaned at a young age. I was injured on the job (assaulted 16 times within 12 moonths by inmates who had me targeted to be taken out according to intelligence)

I have had to sit by my children as they lay in ICU struggling to survive due to complications of their disabilities. I recently almost lost my daughter adn grand daughter in a horriffic car wreck. I have had to accept very serious medical diagnoses that will greatly shorten my life... I don't want to die, but I have some very bad medical things going on that are not stoppable or reversible and will take my life sooner than I am ready for that to happen.

Life can sure suck! Through no fault of our own! I have learned to be resilient. It is hard. I have learned to fully face my terrors and fears. It takes a life-time of therapy to get to this end. And you will too. Pick some people who also have major mental illnesses and copy what they do to have successful management of potentially debilitating mental illness.  Use a mentor to help you!

I strongly suggest you explore exactly why you want a SD at this point? Are you ready? Or just grabbing at any straw you think will make your pain tolerable or go away? If you are believing you must convince your parents of your need as an adult to do something for yourself - my thinking is you are not ready yet for the responsibility of a SD.

It is not the end of the world to have PTSD. When you can face that disorder square on with eyes open, breathing deeply and calmly and find at least 3 positive things about having that diagnosis... then I would say you are ready to consider the next level of healing process... and consider gettng a SD

An ESA is something you can use in the meantime! To nurture you and help you move through the healing process!  So can your horse. Thes two critters can teach you so much... you just have to be ready and willing to learn from them. Watch your horse - listen to it - pretend you are a horse and react to triggers as your horse does. Same with a ESA if you choose to get one! Respond to scarey situations like your dog does!

Having a SD is a real pain in the butt sometimes... everyone notices you, dogs wag their tails and break stuff in stuff in stores... sometimes get sick  (runs or barf) in a store) You have to be mentally ready to hold yor ground in the times you are challenges by store owners and told to get out. I have to make so many accomodations for my SD's needs sometimes I get ticked off about that.

Again: if you are asking how to convince parents ... you aren't ready to use a SD... and have to convince cab drivers - schools - landlords - police - hospitals - clinics - state police -store security...etc..

I am a totally open book... I hope I haven't offended  or frightened you with my sharing. You can always feel free to ask me anything! I will never lie to you and if I don't know something - I will help you find someone who does know the answer.

I care deeply abpout you  (and everyone else here too!)

Roxie

[fledchen]

I added a CAUTION tag to this thread as a whole, which is something we try to do for a topic if even just one of the posts deserves the tag. There's a little message in the first post indicating that I performed the change, but I did not change what anyone else has written.

[Roxie]

"but I obviously cannot keep an 1100 lb animal with you at all times"

Wanna bet!??  I think Lindsay missed the news coverage on that lady with a Service Horse in the grocery store! lol!  Teasing!!!! I'm not advocating using your horse as a full time Service Horse... but others sure think it works for them!

Could someone give Lindsay the link about the lady and her Service Horse? She might get a chuckle out of it!

Roxie

[Kirsten]

I'm afraid I'm not reading well enough to get through most of the material in this topic, at this time.  I did make it through the OP.

1.  If Lindsayloo wants assistance in breaking out of flashbacks or nightmares, then she is not looking for an ESA but an actual PSD to perform specific tasks.  The language she uses suggests she has had some therapy and learned some tools for managing her symptoms but has run into the issue of not being able to implement her training when symptomatic because her brain is too befuddled by the symptoms to remember the tools exist.  I may be reading too much into it, but that's my read.

2.  It sounds like she is a college student being supported by parents as she goes to college.  If so, then her parents concerns about the cost of maintaining a PSD are legitimate.  They aren't free.  They eat, need vaccinations and other veterinary care, need gear; all the things a pet dog would need and more.

The question was about how to convince her parents.  Step one is to do sufficient research to work out a budget and plan.  Do this before discussing it with the parental units.  If you go to a bank asking for money to start a business, they'll want to see your business plan.  Treat this the same way.  It accomplishes nothing to talk them in to it if you can't really pull it off in the end, so start by making a plan to be able to pull it off.  Present the plan and budget, showing them it is possible.  Include a letter from your psychiatrist indicating it is needed.  IMO, that's your best shot.

I'd also look really hard at getting a program dog rather than owner-training in this case.  You have a LOT on your plate already.  A program dog (if you can find a program to work with), will cost less and steal away less of the time you need for your studies.

[Kirsten]

On police dogs.  In skimming I became concerned we were talking about a retired police dog.  I think Lindsayloo was talking about a police dog wash out.  That is different.  I placed a Schutzhund dog wash-out as a service dog.  She had the work ethic, biddability, and solid nerves.  She washed out because she didn't have the right drive to develop a tenacious bite.

Guide dog and service dog wash-outs are sometimes career changed into police dogs of some sort.  Why couldn't it go the other way as well?

I think instead of assuming this is going to be a protection dog we should try to establish that it is not a protection dog.  A simple asking of the task question would allay any such fears if the dog is not intended for personal protection.  I go back to the comment about "breaking flashbacks" and that's not what a protection dog tends to do.  It's what a PSD tends to do.

[lindsayloo]

Let me clear the air about the police dog thing. I have worked with training police dogs and know of a particular line of Belgian Malinois that have the work ethic I am looking for. These are dogs that many have become excellent police dogs, but I would not be getting a dog that has any bite work or narcotic work, although I may incorporate the same essential training that narcotic work involves because it can help in retrieving objects. The dog I am interested in is a dog that has basic obedience, but no police work on him yet. I still have to evaluate his attitude and how much aggression runs through his mind. I am in no way looking to take a dog trained for protection and having an attack dog. As I have told my parents, I am not looking for a protection dog because that is not what a service dog is.

I am waiting for an email back from a trainer in my area that trains service and therapy dogs. She has two different programs. As a horse trainer though I don't know if I can let some else do all of the training. I want to be actively involved in the training process. I may be completely wrong, but I get the impression that if I don't do owner-training than the trainer does all of the training and then hands the dog over to me, obviously with the tasks that are most appropriate for my symptoms. Also I know the trainer that I am looking into gets Labrador puppies to use as service dogs. I am a true believer in personally knowing the lineage that your working animal is coming from. It is a belief that I follow closely in horses that I am breaking and something I'm not sure I can let go of for this.

I am already in college, with a full ride scholarship actually. I do not live on campus, but rather with my cousins, who understand the conditions I deal with. My parents are actively involved in all of my treatment plans, but have always been weary of them, as mental illnesses do have a way of being misunderstood. My studies have almost become too important to me. Because I can be the way I used to before PTSD I focus and overstress about my grades. I keep myself inside and NEVER study in groups. The same vigilance I put towards my grades, I put towards my research towards service dogs. I have researched what "disabled" is defined as in my state legislation, as well as if I qualify for it. I have been researching the topic for a few months now. I don't jump into things, as I am afraid some of you got the impression I am doing. I have asked the questions of whether the stress of a dog is more than I can handle and whether I will or won't be able to handle the questions, stares, and funny behaviors in public. I have asked the questions of what dog breeds would be best suited for my lifestyle. I have found that breeds from the Working Dog Group, or Shepherd breeds would fit in best for what I am looking for in a dog.

I would never look to any one option as "the cure". I know there is NO "magic wand". Combating a mental illness is a combination of strategies. I currently am practicing EMDR to help with my PTSD, as well as taking an antidepressant. I have tried to find a therapist at school but have not been able to find one so I drive back to my hometown once a week to meet with my psychologist. I am not taking the hours that I would have been taking had none of this happened. I am also practicing yoga as it helps to calm my anxiety. I have learned many of my triggers and try to avoid them as best as I can. I understand that my condition is something I will very possibly live with for the rest of my life. I am looking at a PSD to allow myself to regain the life I have lost. There are things I want to do with my life that I cannot do in my current state of being. My psychologist thinks that having a PSD will greatly help me.

I am looking more into the costs associated with a service dog. I have found the membership benefits of IAADP and those may help in talking to my parents. My personality is one that gets what she wants through persuasion, including PowerPoints and presentations, the way I convinced my parents to let me do things in high school. I am asking for any other suggestions.

Does anyone have a budget specifically for their service dog? What is on your list of must haves for your service dog? How do others make their service dogs work into their household budgets? Does anyone recommend a certain brand of pet insurance?

Lastly I would like to reiterate that I understand the blood, sweat, and tears that go into training an animal, as well as the joy and satisfaction. I understand that animals can and will make mistakes. I understand that animals are still animals, not robots, that have emotions and tendencies that humans cannot always predict. I also should say that I am a perfectionist, something that doesn't help my PTSD. I would never take a dog into public that isn't ready, just as I would never dream of taking a horse to a show that wasn't performing consistently at home, which has turned into I would not ever dream of taking a horse to a show because it will be too stressful of a situation for me. But that last comment put aside, I understand how much time will go into keeping and training and having a service dog. I have considered selling my horse to pay for this endever. That is something my parents put their foot down to because they realize, as do I, how my horse has helped me through these tough times. My horse though, as I have already said, can only take me so far. 

[Keldrena]

So far, Figaro has cost me $4000, not count the regular dog stuff. I'm probably going to spend around $6000 to $8000 by the time he finishes training.

[Kirsten]

I estimate my SD costs about $80 per month, with vet care and such prorated monthly.  That doesn't count emergencies, which should be budgeted separately.  There's a thread around here somewhere discussing budgets.  You might try doing a search for it.