Should I mention the ESA ahead of time?

[Spectrum]

I'm cirrently looking for a different apartment - planning on moving in around the 1st of September.  Some have a no pets policy, some allow small pets, and some say large dogs welcome. My question is, out of the ones that say no pets or small pets only (Gavroche is around 57 pounds), should I mention the ESA when I make my first inquiry, wait until I do the application, or wait until it comes time to sign the lease? I'd like to think that telling them when I make the first inquiry would be best, so they have plenty of advance notice, but I worry that I'll be discriminated against on the basis of the ESA before I ever get to fill out the application; on the other hand, if I fill out the application and mention the ESA there, I worry they'll not approve it on the basis of the dog, and I lose the application fee. But then, not telling them until I go to sign the lease seems inconsiderate because they don't really get advance warning.

Also, is it a good idea to offer to bring Gavroche to their office at some point so they can meet him and see his temperament first hand?

I'm trying to pick the places that welcome large dogs as my first choices (just to prevent the hassle), but there is one apartment that is the perfect price, the perfect size, and in the perfect location, but has a "no pets" policy (and they have built in vacuums, how cool is that?!).

[cowlypso]

But then, not telling them until I go to sign the lease seems inconsiderate because they don't really get advance warning.

Is there any conceivable reason why they would need advance warning?  I can't think of one.  Therefore, there's no reason to give it to them if it could lead to discrimination. 

As far as the advance warning that they deserve...  After you've signed the lease and have a move-in date, I would let them know a week in advance or so, so that there is time to provide them with the appropriate documentation and have it circulate through their administrative ranks. 

[Roxie]

No. Do not mention the ESA until your lease is signed and you are requesting an accommodation to keep your ESA. However, if you are applying for income based housing, they have to calculate your rent based upon allowable expenses IE: SD or ESA maintenance costs, etc.

Roxie

[Spectrum]

ESA maintenance costs are allowable expenses?  That's good to know. One of the ones I'm considering applying to is income-based, and they are one of the ones that says large dogs welcome.

[Roxie]

Always has been for me in all the HUD housing I've lived in over the last 5 years. Also, is allowable expense for calculating Food Stam benefits. I produce my Dr.'s note for an ESA and SD. Have only had a problem once.... and that was with the Food Stamps... but I appealed and won.

Roxie

[Cera]

When I applied for apartments, I did mention my SD.  I didn't want to start things out on a bad note with management.  It wasn't the first thing I discussed, but then I also brought her to the showing.  Personally I would let them know "I have a disability and an ESA that assists me with that disability as allowed under HUD.  He is well behaved and I have both documentation of my disability and need along with reccomendations and documentation of his behavior, and am more than willing to answer any questions you have."  You might want to explain that an ESA is the same as a SD in housing, even though they are for in-home support only.

I was really afraid my dog would be an issue.  It wasn't.  Getting the owner to give HUD his SSN was the issue and I ended up in another complex managed by the same management.

[bj2circeleb]

I agree that it should not be necesary to do so ahead of time, but I would ensure that you do so immediatley on signing the lease and make sure you have more than the minimum requirements and offer to allow them to meet the dog, etc.

I am currently looking for another place, and while I am in another country, as Brooke is a service dog legally I cannot be discriminated against on the basis of her, but the simple reality is that they could refuse to rent to me on the basis of anything at all. I have references from each of my immediate neighbours, vet and trainers, all testifying to Brooke's wonderful behaviour, health, etc, etc. One of my neighbours is muslim and she has written that also. Brooke has never ever barked, and I will always have her with me when looking for places. To me I do not want to take the risk that they have problems and so I have a whole resume for Brooke, along with plenty of references, all with phone numbers and other contact details. I also have letters form all my doctors and therapists testifying to my need for her, and how much she supports me. I do have a copy of the relevant legislation if needed, but I have no intention of forcing the law, I just want to reinforce that the legislation does support these dogs. Research certainly shows that the more evidence you have of the dogs behaviour, training, health care, etc the more chance you will have of finding rental accommodation. Make sure you offer to pay pet deposits, etc if relevant and offer to sign extra clauses on a lease if need be to say that you will always look after the dog. I also ensure that they are fully aware of the emergency procedures that I have in place for the dog, should I become ill or injured, as the last thing an landlord wants is to be stuck with a dog, and having to decide what to do with it, etc.

I agree with the starting with pet friendly properties and even those that only allow small pets are going to be more acceptablde to those that want none at all. Be as prepared as you can be, and have all the possible available evidence to support your well behaved, healty and temperamentally sound dog. Make sure you mention how you ensure the dog has plenty of exercise and mental stimulation and is not simply left to bark all day.

[Spectrum]

Thanks everyone for the tips and information ^.^

I have another question. What is the application specifically asks about pets? Should I mention it there, or wait, and if when the time comes to ask for the accommodation they ask why it wasn't on the application, tell them he's not strictly a pet, but is equal to a service dog as far as housing in concerned?

[Cera]

If the application asks about pets, mention it there but add that he is a 'support dog' for your disability.  Also attach your letter requesting reasonable accommodation.  I think there is a sample letter on the main page here or at least a link to bazzillion (sp) where the dr. note sample is.  The fact is that they can't deny you for having him and any decent management should know that.  If you are working with HUD specific housing, this is probably pretty standard for them.

Personally I like to tell them over the phone because I like to hear their hesitation and in no uncertain terms let them know at that point that my dog cannot be a reason for denial.  But I do better on phones.

[bj2circeleb]

If the place is fine with pets overall, including large dogs, then I would mention it, but I would also perhaps cross out pet and write emotional support animal, etc. I am currently crossing out pet on applications and writing "assistance dog" the term used here. I would however, make sure that you have all your evidence with you and that you submit that with the application, if you do mention that you do have a dog. You have not done anything wrong if you do not mention the dog. The other issue to consider is if they ring your current landlord/agent/manager, etc (as is standard here) and they mention the dog, then it could become an issue, as they may feel that you will be trying to sneak a dog in. If they are going to ring your current person and they could give a good reference about the dog, then it may not hurt to have the dog mentioned, but make sure you attach all the evidence you can to support your application for the dog.

I am sure other people on your side of the planet, can give you more information about what is relevant to you.

Pet Resumes:
http://www.northbay-canine.org/lastresort3-txt.htm
http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/renting_with_pets_the_online_resource_for_rental_managers_and_pet_owners/finding_animalfriendly_rental_housing/sample_resume_for_your_pet.html
http://www.affordablemanagement.com/rental-pet-resume.php

[Spectrum]

Personally I like to tell them over the phone because I like to hear their hesitation and in no uncertain terms let them know at that point that my dog cannot be a reason for denial.  But I do better on phones.

Unfortunately, I'm terrible with phones    But I do like to take my application in in person, as opposed to mailing it, and I can stand my ground better in person than over the phone.


Thanks for the links BJ - I'm working on a resume, and that one really helps. It's always nice to have multiple examples. I will do that with crossing off "pet" when I encounter it. As far as the management here, I seriously doubt anyone actually knows my dog - he was on the initial lease, but they are terrible about keeping track of paperwork. I did send the stuff about him being an ESA to the office, but knowing them they saud "Huh" and scattered it with the rest of the paperwork If anyone knows him, it's the security guard that called him a pit and said I can't have pits, but surprisingly he's been very friendly and accepting of him the last couple months. There are some residents that know him - my neighbors across the porch know him, and the neighbors downstairs that have a beagle know him (because he was with me when I returned their beagle after finding him loose). But other than that, it's not a close-knit community in the least. I know the names of the dogs near me, but not the people xD (Lucky and Blackie the evil chihuahuas, Maddie the Belgian tervuren, Blue the beagle).

[bj2circeleb]

If you can get any of the neighbours that do not own dogs to write a reference for you, that would really help. I think what they really want to know is that this dog will not bark like mad and drive all the neighbours nuts, while your gone!! Even when managment/landlords, etc do care enough to take an interest in the property they are not there everyday and so I think most people would really take references from neighbours more seriously - well they would if they have a brain!! I personally also do not think that it would hurt to print out the brazelton law site page, or a copy of the relevant law and to take that with you also. It would not hurt to have the dog in the car when you do go to drop off the applicatino as that way you can explain it all in person and then are there offer to introduce them to your dog!!

[Roxie]

Do you have a pet? No.

You have an ESA ordered by your Dr.

Roxie

[bj2circeleb]

While the law might not require you to ask for permission or to even tell them upfront the simple reality is that even if the law allows you to have the dog there, they can take you to court to have you evicted and you will end up having to go to court to justify the situation (hence you have to consider ahead of time if this is what you want and if you are willing and able to cope with such things, even if you would win!!) and even if they don't take legal action trying to evict you they can do a lot of things to make your life a living nightmare just so you will leave. Personally I always prefer to be honest and upfront and to avoid any issues in the long run. Housing is not some place you want to dread to go to. You want to love where you live, you want it to be a home in the full sense of the word and to feel as though you have the full support of your landlord/agent/manager, etc.

I certainly know that the guide dog program here always issues clients with references for new rental housing, and encourages them to get references from neighours, vets, etc. The law is explained, but the idea is to simply ease the way. They do not walk in threatening legal action or the law, but simply stating that these are not pets, but working dogs and as such have a right to be in any manner of places based on the training, testing and health checks they have had and will continue to have and that these dogs behave this way at home as well as in public places. I have done the same thing and never had any issues. Does this mean it will always work, not at all, but I personally would start with being upfront and if you really are being rejected, then you can reconsider what you want to do about disclosure, etc. I see the application as a way of building a working relationship and not a way to keep secrets and make enemy's. I want them on my side. I need repairs done quickly and I want to know that I have their support, should I have problems, with rent, other tenants, etc.

[Cera]

I have to agree with bj.  Housing is a long-term relationship.  Even if you could legally say 'nope.  I don't have a pet' and spring the ESA as soon as the lease is signed, that is not demonstrating the integrity or openess that is necessary in  for a good-faith landloard/tenant relationship.  It might be within the law, but little things like that could potentially annoy management and make things uncomfortable all around.  And they do control how quickly repairs are made (baked goods are also incentive) and if they give you grace on a late rent check as well as the reference for your next apartment.

I have been in a human rights battle with management before.  It is something I would very much recommend avoiding at all costs.  I might have somewhat won the settlement, but the toll on my health was huge.  I was so relieved to get out of there.