Huge Problems

[AshertoAsher]

I'm a college student and this semester my MDD and OCD have gotten so bad I can't function. Seemingly by intuition and against the warnings of my parents, I adopted an 8 month old puppy in December. My dog gets me out of bed in the morning and he alerts others when I am having my panic attacks. I want to train Asher to be a psychiatric service dog. There's just one problem.

I need a full service dog. Withdrawl from my meds gives me narcolepsy and I often forget to take them. When I collapse in public, I need someone to be there for me. The problem is that Asher has his own problems. I adopted him through a family that saved him from a puppy mill. He's not properly socialized and has a lot of anxiety issues. His obedience training is a problem. Although he's taken really well to tasks I ask him to do at home, he freezes up in public. He chases cars, doesn't heel and I don't have the money for a trainer. Don't worry, since he couldn't pass a public access test, I refuse to take him anywhere a normal dog couldn't go. I realize doing so would infringe on the rights of other service dog owners.

I've already bonded with this dog but I'm at my wits end. I would rather give up the hope of a PSD than give up my best friend and two dogs would be too much for me at this time in my life. My last hope is to ask others who have had problems training their PSDs. Maybe I'm not alone. Maybe there's hope for Asher and me.

[fledchen]

I merged these two posts to one topic because they are the same post. Please do not post the same text on multiple areas of the forum. It makes it difficult to keep track of a topic if it is spread across multiple areas. Thank you!

[Ilghaus]

He's not properly socialized and has a lot of anxiety issues. His obedience training is a problem. Although he's taken really well to tasks I ask him to do at home, he freezes up in public.

It sounds like Asher will make you a nice assistance dog "at home". A dog who freezes (if this is what he indeed is doing) does not have the proper temperament to work out in the public. When a dog is nervous of a new situation he goes into an alert stage where his focus is on the problem at hand, if he becomes convinced that he is in danger he will choose one of two paths -- either he will decide to fight to protect himself or he will try to flee to a safe area. A dog that is terrified and past the stage of reasoning and trying to determine to what is called fight or flee will freeze. They have shut down and are literally too scared to move.

A dog that sees monsters in their minds is not suitable to use in public for any type of work. A simple walk around the neighborhood may be a nightmare for them and the owner may have to spend a long time just to help them to relax and enjoy these walks on a pet level. A PSD needs to be the most rock solid of all SDs as they must be able to fall back upon their training and perform their tasks without direct commands from their handler from time to time.

It is not uncommon for an OT to have to wash out a good many dogs and so for a newbie trainer it is always best to rely on either getting a Program Dog or else find an excellent trainer with experience in working with SDs (optimum) or other types of working dogs.

We have many threads where people talk about having to start over because their SDIT did not make the grade during training.

[Kirsten]

Unfortunately, few dogs are actually cut out to be full service service dogs.  Many service dog programs have stopped getting dogs from shelters or accepting donated puppies because they found their odds of getting working service dogs increased from 1 in a hundred among shelter dogs to as high as 7 out of 8 for dogs intentionally bred for the specific type of work needed. 

Service work is stressful, both emotionally and physically.  It can be as emotionally stressful as being an air traffic controller.  It's hard work even for a dog who is completely emotionally sound.  IMO, it is cruel for a dog who is not emotionally sound.

While there is much you can do to help Asher grow emotionally, the odds of repairing the damage done to him as a puppy to such a degree that he can comfortably manage service work are very very slim.  I'm very sorry.  But you do have each other, and that in itself can be a great benefit to each of you.  Honestly, if he were my dog I wouldn't push it.  I'd help him to the best of my ability, enjoy him to the best of my ability, and accept him for who he is.

[Rovingrebel]

Value Asher for the service he provides at home an begin applying to service dog schools.

[AshertoAsher]

hmmm...

This makes me really sad. I figure the best thing I can do is maybe give the pup a chance. I'm gonna save up for a trainer, get him neutered, and work with him for a few months. What do you guys think are the chances he'll get better? He takes very quickly to training and he's very smart (Australian Shepherd).

I guess I have my whole life from here on out to work with service dogs. A few months spent on Asher couldn't hurt, right?

[blkpanther0001]

no it won't hurt, is their a Petco near you if so talk to the trainer about training, get into a group basic obedience class, or take several if you need to it won't hurt and will help him get used to working with you in public, after you take the first one you should get a 20% discount on all other classes. If the trainer does not know about training svs dogs let me know where you are at and I will see about contacting them with info to help them help you.

[Kirsten]

No time spent with a dog is wasted.  No time you spend training him will be wasted either.  All dogs can benefit from training even if they don't become service dogs.

[Cera]

Poor dog.  Sounds like he has been through a lot in his life.  How old is he?  What breed?

Some dog schools have classes specifically for shy/scared dogs and dealing with their issues.  If you can locate something like that, I would think it could be the most benificial (or private training).  A petco class might be too overstimulating for a dog that freezes--at least for now.  Right now it sounds like the task at hand is working through his many issues, not SD training.  Taking it slow and not overwheling or flooding the dog with too many things and experiences is going to be the best bet.  If you find a training center ask to sit in a class before you take him.  Look for something low key--small classes, not a lot going on around the room, a gentle hand by the instructor.

Having a pet can have a HUGE emotional (positive) impact on you, service dog or not.  Your experiences with him can also give you the basics for training.  Work on training tricks at home.  Have you ever done clicker work?  It is FUN.  Honestly, I think it might be best to ellivaite the stress and make the decision now that this dog isn't going to fit for public access work.  However, that doesn't mean he can't be a great at-home dog.

As for your issues, have you explored other ways to get your needs met besides a service dog?  Have your tried alarms and other gadgets to remind you to take your meds?  Are you working with a therapist to deal with the triggers, coping and response to your panic?  Typically a SD isn't a cure all.  You also have to be able to maintain some sort of stability, consistancy, and awareness to train the SD for the 18 months to 2 years that it takes before they are useful.  My SD is very helpful to me, but I also work very hard with my therapist to deal with issues and have other auxilliary supports in place.

ANyway, welcome.  I am glad you have found us here and I hope you find the resources you need.

[blkpanther0001]

Some dog schools have classes specifically for shy/scared dogs and dealing with their issues.  If you can locate something like that, I would think it could be the most benificial (or private training).  A petco class might be too overstimulating for a dog that freezes--at least for now.  Right now it sounds like the task at hand is working through his many issues, not SD training.  Taking it slow and not overwheling or flooding the dog with too many things and experiences is going to be the best bet.  If you find a training center ask to sit in a class before you take him.  Look for something low key--small classes, not a lot going on around the room, a gentle hand by the instructor.

I know you can find this at petco, I offer and have classes limited to 2-3 dogs or private lessons, the lessons can be anywhere you want to meet with the exception of inside your home. I currently have a class that has 3 shy dogs that are starting to come out of their shell in only 3 classes. but look around find someone who will work with you and your dog, PetSmart has dog trainers also and I love their training area's wish I had one like it. look in the phone book for private trainers.

We also have a clicker class if you would like to learn clicker, and a tricks class (waiting on the info on that one).

[Kirsten]

Sonya, I don't think this is standard for Petco classes.  I don't mean to cast aspersions on you as a trainer, but my personal experience has been that Petco trainers, at least in my area, aren't exactly competent.  At any rate, they are geared toward basic pet dog training classes, not the sort of specialized training that would be needed for for a dog with issues beyond regular pet training.

Petco would not be my first choice when looking for a trainer.  I'd look for someone with credentials, say a CPDT, NADOI, someone with a college degree in animal behavior or ethology, or at the very least someone who has titled several dogs in obedience.

An anxious dog overfaced by an inexperienced trainer can be made significantly worse.

[blkpanther0001]

Sonya, I don't think this is standard for Petco classes.

I know it is not standard but their are some trainers out their. I have other petco trainers in my district coming to me asking me questions all the time now on how I do this or how did I do that as they are hearing thru the rumor mill how I have been training. I owe allot of what I know to this group of people. you guys have helped me learn so much more then I could know otherwise. I know I am not perfect and don't know everything their is about dog training and am not able to help really vicious dogs but I can help allot of them out their to a point.

I have made almost as much in dog training since the first of they year as another store that has 4 trainers and I am the only one for my store. I am holding 7 classes a week currently and they cannot hardly get 2 a week going. plus lots of private class's also. I am honest with my students on weather or not I can help them and what point I have to call it quits as I am unable to help anymore and send them to find a trainer who can help.

 Asher; You can use the Petco, and PetSmart trainers to find someone in your area that can help, Also check with veterinarians, animal shelters to see who they recommend as dog trainers that can help. If you see someone with a dog ask about their training where they go etc... other dog owners are a great resource for finding dog trainers in your area.

[Cera]

Their are other resources besides Petco or Petsmart available to find a solid trainer/training program.  Both these programs TYPICALLY cater to pet dogs needing basic house behavior and TYPICALLY hold their sessions in the store which is horribly overstimulating.  The classes TYPICALLY don't go much further than a CGC.  A service dog, on the other hand sould be trained beyond the levels of competition obediance (CD, CD-X).  Finding a training club vs a store class also holds benefits.  The staff doesn't change as much, experienced members are always constant and around.  For me, an individual with emotional issues, having a training club that understood that was a huge deal.  I can't speak for all store-based obediance programs, but the ones I have knows don't have the same type of consistancy and not all the trainers have the best training ability.  For one thing, they said I qualified to teach a course.  I've never actually titled a dog myself.

We do have several links to trainers and programs in different locations that might be knowledgable of service dogs.  Most are qualified CPDT or NADOI or the like.  Still interview any prospective trainers.  Ask about their dogs and up to what levels they have them trained (titles?).  Sit through their classes.  For me, with anxiety issues, the aptomsphere is a huge deal so pay attention to that.

Anyway, here is a a list of lists to start on:

http://servicedogcentral.org/content/node/262

[AshertoAsher]

Just some quick ideas

Asher came to school yesterday. He had been at my aunt's house while I worked on my school work and she had him on a pretty good socialization schedule.

Tonight he ate dinner with me. (I live in a house and have communal dinners with the other residents. There are about 90 of them.) I tied his leash to the table and, like a good future service dog, he settled himself under the table and didn't make a peep the whole time.

This weekend we've been on various walks, a trip to the vet, and a trip to petsmart and all seems well. He's pulling at the leash and aching to smell everything like a good 9 month old puppy should! He even ate treats at the vet! He never used to eat treats outside of the house because he was always too nervous. Essentially he is now where he should have been when he was 12 weeks old.

Still, when people approach him he shivers a lot and runs behind my leg and when we pass someone on the street he runs to the opposite side of me from them but he's come so far I'm having a hard time giving up hope.

I had a pretty bad day today depression-wise and the little guy knew it. Every chance he got he snuggled under my chin or cried to get me out of bed. I have to work on getting him to wake me up because daytime sleeping is probably the most debilitating part of my disability. Any ideas?

I also discussed everything that you guys said about switching SDITs with my live-in boyfriend. Both of us really love the little guy and with my particular disability, public access isn't the most important thing. We're going to get an obedience trainer and see where that goes. We're also going to get him neutered (though I don't know what that would do for a shy dog).

We're also going to work on exposing him little by little to the public. I've already gotten all my professors and my boss to agree to let him hang out in class/work. They know that he's still at the very early parts of his training (I explained that he is still struggling with basic obedience) and have promised to forgive him his mistakes. So, its not technically public, its just another way to get him socialized. Spending everyday all day with people shouldn't hurt. I try not to flood him by telling people not to look at him and to keep a distance.

So right now we're at sit, down, paw, and play dead. Heel training is going badly. Any ideas?

[Kirsten]

I'm not sure we said to switch SDITs.  There are some problems with the way you are raising him that will affect his potential to become a service dog, AND there are some problems with how he was selected that will also decrease the likelihood he can become a service dog.

Here's the problem.  If you switch dogs without fixing the underlying problems with the way you are training, you will have two dogs not suited to service work and still without a service dog.

What you need most of all is a competent trainer to work with. even if you have to travel to reach them.  Honestly, this just plain isn't going to work unless you can get some help from an expert trainer in person.

This particular dog's best chance at becoming a service dog will come from an experienced puppy raiser, even just a pet puppy raiser.  Someone needs to teach him where to toilet and how to walk on a leash.  Without those two very basic skills he will not only not become a service dog, he won't be a very popular pet either.

He's pulling at the leash and aching to smell everything like a good 9 month old puppy should!

The above is an example.  At nine months old, he should not be pulling on the leash.  He should have learned loose leash walking starting the day he was first leashed and should have mastered it by three or four months old.  He can't learn to heel until he learns first to not pull on the leash.  A trainer working with you in person could help significantly in keeping you on track and guiding you on what is and isn't acceptable training-wise, and how to fix what isn't right.

So ideas?  Yes, find a trainer to work with, even if you have to travel to reach them.  Ask family to help pay for training.  Sell things.  Recycle cans.  What ever it takes to come up with the money for the training classes.