"The Cavalier - GF's Newest Assistance Dog"

[blkpanther0001]

Our boys both wear the head collars but it is for our benefit not theirs, they work great on or off lead.

I can tell where his head is without looking at him if he is alerting to sounds (no I don't need this for myself, but it helps me in training hearing ear dogs for others),

and my husband does need a hearing ear dog so it helps him in that way also.

[Kirsten]

There are three reasons I can think of off the top of my head that people use head collars on service dogs.

1.  Directional hearing signal.
2.  Program doesn't trust handler to maintain training.
3.  Dog pulls.

I'd bet fewer than one in ten falls into the first category.  Therefore, the vast majority of dogs wearing head collars are not sufficiently trained for service work in my opinion.  Those dogs that are sufficiently trained will be able to demonstrate this by heeling on a loose leash, in spite of the head collar.  When I say "loose leash" I mean the snap of the leash is hanging straight down and the leash looks like a letter "J," not a straight line.

[Cait]

One question about the ADI PAT - does it allow for martingale/limited slip collars? A lot of dogs can inadvertantly back right out of a buckle collar.

[Kirsten]

All testing shall be done with equipment appropriate to the needs and abilities of the team.

However, a correctly handled and trained dog will not back out of his collar.  In order to back out of his collar he would have to tighten the leash.

Frankly, if a "service dog" cannot pass a public access test on a plain buckle collar something is wrong.  I'm not talking about working in public, when special equipment might be needed.  During a test of JUST the public access skills, a dog should be able to function with the most basic of equipment.

Remember that the function of a buckle collar on a trained dog is to provide a place to attach the ID tags, and a a place to attach the leash for compliance with local leash laws.  On a trained dog the collar isn't needed for control because the dog is obedient.  Why is this important?  Because equipment fails, collars and leashes break, leashes are dropped, and handlers fall down.  If equipment is needed to control the dog, then control will be lost in any of these events.

A service dog should be worked on leash, in compliance with local leash laws, but he should be capable of working buck naked and off-leash.  Of all the possible jobs a working dog might have, service work is the most unpredictable.

[BlindMag]

Agreed!  I did just get a headcollar to try, but as a training experiment.  I have seen 2 different program dogs, both huge Labs, who wore a choke collar daily when working and I found that interesting [both GDs]. 

[fledchen]

Agreed!  I did just get a headcollar to try, but as a training experiment.  I have seen 2 different program dogs, both huge Labs, who wore a choke collar daily when working and I found that interesting [both GDs]. 

It is standard practice for most American guide dog schools to have their students work their dogs on choke collars, so that any mistakes or misbehavior can be corrected immediately. People may not agree with this practice, but I currently do not know of any schools that do not have their students work their dogs on a chain slip collar.

[bj2circeleb]

Within Australia guide dog puppies and dogs in training are in standard buckle collars. Correction chains are placed on the dogs one month before they are due to be placed with their handler, and this is as a safety net correction aid for the visually impaired person who cannot see what is happening and for if and when a verbal command has not worked. I have heard that they are now using limited slip collars on newly trained guide dogs, and are considering going without them.

Like Kirsten said and what I was trying to say was that head collars and correction chains may have a role in the ongoing use of an assistance dog but they do not have any role in a Public Access Test. These dogs should be able to pass the whole test off leash, but given leash laws and the needs of the public this will never happen and hence the next best thing is a plain flat buckle collar. All service dogs should be tested in public open spaces for their ability to operate off leash.

If programs don't trust people to maintain the training of the dogs then they have not trained them as a team well enough and are not doing enough followup. ADI requires all teams to be retested each 12 months and yet I have heard that most simply make a phone call every 12 months to make sure all is going OK, and are hoping the person concerned will tell them is something is wrong. Many people won't do that for fear of the dog being taken back.

[Cait]

I guess I just don't see a martingale collar as a correction device as much as a safety measure. Yes, a SD should be well-trained enough to work off leash, but does that mean it is safe for them to do so? There's a big difference between a martingale collar and a correction collar. Heck, most of the times Mal's come out of a collar, it's been me being dumb and accidentally flipping it over his long pointy head.

[Kirsten]

It's a safety measure that shouldn't be needed during a public access test, when the handler is focused on the dog and the dog is supposedly under control.  I wouldn't let someone do a PAT under me on the live ring of a martingale.  I don't particularly care if they use it for regular work after the test.

The therapy dog tests are the same way.  You have to use a plain buckle collar.  Whose standards should be higher?  Us or them?

The reality is still that equipment breaks.  If a person is dependent on a piece of equipment to control their dog, then they have a training problem.  Because of my brain injury I am forgetful.  Beyond absent minded.  I have left the house in a girdle and no dress.  I often leave without shoes, even in snow.  So yes, I have left the house without necessary gear, including a collar and/or a leash.  If I've managed to remember shoes, I'll substitute a boot lace for the missing equipment when I realize it's missing.

It is better to raise standards than to lower the bar.  I know a dog can be worked on a buckle collar and a loose leash if he is sufficiently trained regardless of how big his head is.  I mentioned being air-headed at times.  I have discovered Cole wearing his collar around his forehead like a stylish headband instead of a workman's neck tie.  It hadn't fallen off. 

Cole is a cool dog, but he is far from the best trained dog I've known, or trained.  He's sloppy and a bit casual in his performance.   He sometimes needs a verbal reminder not to forge.  He occasionally claims his hearing is failing with old age.  He scores in the mid 180's in obedience competition.  He's still under control without regard for what equipment he is (or isn't) wearing.  Plain and simple:  Cole's claim to fame is that he is very well proofed and that's what a service dog really needs.  They should continue to perform reliably in any conceivable situation.  Loss of equipment is more than conceivable, it is likely to happen at some point or another, even if the handler doesn't have a TBI.

I wouldn't pass kids in my swimming classes either with special equipment like goggles.  One doesn't always have goggles when they fall out of a boat or off of a dock.  Even if the child chooses to use goggles on a regular basis they'll have to prove to me they are capable of swimming without them on their tests.  I test for the real world.

[BlindMag]

Thanks for the explanation; I agree.  It seems like a fine line between a tool and a crutch to use anything beyond a buckle collar; while I do use a variety of other aids [prong, martingale, plain harness, guide harness] in the course of my training, this is as a temporary tool for me to work on one specific task or issue at a time, with a short-term goal and measurable results,  until I feel it is more solid, with the long-term aim of repeating it in a buckle collar. However having said that; I am unsure what I will ultimately want to work my dog in once he is more trained and I am less sighted; do I want to have him wear a martingale collar as well as his buckle collar [which he always wears] and harness?  Suggestions on this? 

[bj2circeleb]

I have just listened to the most beautiful story about a real therapy dog.  This is a US story but was told in Australia as the psychologist was in Australia doing some education on Animal Assisted Therapy. He talks about his work with a young girl with selective mutism who would only talk to him if the dog was present. After a few months, she began to be able to talk to him without his dog present, but would still not talk anywhere else. When asked what it would take for her to talk at school she said if the dog was there. Hence the therapist spent many months organising for permission to take the dog to the school so the child could talk to her teacher. This was in 1991. This is Prof Aubry Fine.

The link to the talk is
http://www.pettalkradio.com.au/

If you click on the link to the current show, or show #241 for Monday 10 September 2007 you can scroll down the page to the talk "afternoons with puppy". You can just listen to that part.

The link to the website about his book is

http://www.afternoonswithpuppy.com/

It is a shame the woman in this case just cannot understand what she is doing is not a service dog, but is a therapy dog. This guy also talks about the differences between Animal assisted activities, which is what most therapy dogs are, being there to pet, etc and Animal Assisted Therapy which is dogs that play a real therapeutic role and have a active part in the therapy team. This is what this woman is doing. What is also interesting is that I think this guy is associated with delta, and since this is what this woman claims she is accredited with, then she should already know about him and his work, and hence should know the possibilities of real therapy dogs and that what she wants is to simply have her pet dog in public with her.

[blkpanther0001]

Hay Kirsten,

she is just ignoring us now, not posting or responding. I think she knows she is wrong, and after offering to give you her delta number she never meant to actually give it to you. she thought you would just so no it is not needed or something like that.