Best food available in Australia (would also appreciate US help)

[silverpegasus]

I'm currently researching which food I should feed to my dog when he or she eventually gets matched to me. I know I will switch from the food they will be on and I know I am allowed to as I went through all this around this time last year with my first dog. As they are a sponsor for the program my dog will be on Advance as seen here http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=1788&cat=all

As you may notice, this is a 1 star dog food and there is no way I am paying the price this sells for, for something as poor quality as that. After a bit of research into dog food I don't particularly want to feed that food even if it were cheaper anyway.

If I get the same as a year ago I will be given 2 large bags of this food to take home with my dog and I will feed that before switching like I did last time.

One thing I am finding disappointing about researching is so many people seem to recommend TOTW. Unfortunately I can't find that in Australia

When I had Yorric, I switched him to Canidae grain free formula. He seemed to do well on it although I did often notice a bit of a bad breath problem. I admit there are several things that could cause this but I have read mention that other people have had this issue so I'm not sure if the canidae could be playing a role in it. Also I spent some time recently with a few other dogs all fed Canidae (although the ALS regular formula not the grain free) and they seemed to have the issue to a certain degree as well. Has anyone else here had this issue.

Another development that seems to have happened since I had Yorric is I now seem to be able to buy Innova. When I first had Yorric it wasn't available anywhere online as Pets Paradise (a pet store chain) had exclusive rights to sell in Australia. I and many others refuse to support them as they support puppy farms etc. In my most recent search I've noticed it is available on several sites including the one I used to buy Yorric's Canidae from so Pet's Paradise must no longer have exclusive rights.

So basically the foods I'm looking at possibly feeding are:

Canidae Grain Free (cost AU$109.95 - AU$119.95 for 30 lbs (13.6kg))
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=2038&cat=all

Canidae Grain Free with Salmon Meal (cost the same as above)
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=2039&cat=all
(I fed the first one to Yorric. Is there some specific benefit to the fish one?)

Canidae ALS formula (cost AU$102.95 for 35lbs (15.9kg))
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=2034&cat=all

(I am also considering a mixture of the Grain Free and regular Canidae in an effort to make it slightly cheaper)

Artemis Fresh Mix Adult (cost AU$105.35 for 30lbs (13.6kg))
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=2303&cat=all

Artemis Fresh Mix Maximal dry dog food Grain Free (cost AU$114.85 for 30lbs (13.6kg))
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=1730&cat=all

Innova Large Bites (cost AU$119.95 for 30lbs (13.6kg))
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=2279&cat=all

EVO Turkey and Chicken (cost AU$139.95 for 28.7lbs (13kg))
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=1601&cat=all

If I went with the EVO I think I would definitely have to mix it with something else as that it just a bit too pricey for me. If I work out the price for 30lbs it works out to be about AU$40 more expensive than the Canidae I was feeding Yorric. Ouch! I must also say I have been very jealous reading the prices you guys pay for food in the US.

So I would definitely appreciate any comments or bits of advice anyone could give me. Obviously I won't make the final decision or actually buy any food until I have a dog but I thought I'd spend some time researching and I'd like to have an idea what I'm going to get soon so that it's one less thing to give great thought to later while we are busy bonding and training. I also hope this thread may be of a little use to others in Australia. If anyone in Australia has seen any of these for cheaper prices please let me know and if you'd like to know where I found my prices I'd be happy to share although I think postage might be a bit worse outside Sydney.

I have been spending a lot of my dog free time researching training/ food/ anything else dog related that comes to mind. I will be a LOT more prepared for this dog than I was for Yorric.

[Kirsten]

I can answer the fish question.  Some dogs are allergic to specific proteins.  Cole, for example, is allergic to chicken, which is present in nearly all dog foods, even if it isn't the "flavor" of the dog food (you'll find it in beef and lamb dog food as well).  Fish is often offered as an alternate protein source for dogs with this allergy.  I tried Cole on a fish formula, which he absolutely despised.  So we live with his sometimes watery eyes.  He is no longer allowed to take Benedryl because of his prescription medication.  Oddly, he is now passionately in love with Ollie's fish Fancy Feast.  Go figure.

[KatHolly]

Out of all those choices, my personal favorite is EVO since it has a lot of meat, and not as many fillers. The Grain-free Canidae also looks pretty good though, maybe a mix of the two? Or alternating brands?

Personally I love the grain free brands. My absolute favorites are Orijen and Acana, but they cost an arm and a leg. I'm not sure if they're available in Australia either. My lil' Bit is going to be on Innova, not my favorite food, (too many fillers for my taste) but it was either that or ProPlan as per the breeder's contract.

[Cera]

If I recall correctly, all AUS dog foods are much more controlled over USA dog foods, so many of the quality concerns aren't there in the brands. Personally I think grain free vs. grains are usually a personal preference unless it is causing problems for the dogs. I think a lot of people suggest Wellness here because it is one of the lesser expensive grain free formulas. Unless there was a reason to (and I am buying the most expensive cat food out there for the cat because there is a reason) I wouldn't switch to EVO-- more money for a smaller bag.

I never had dog breath problems (my dog had obsessively clean teeth), so I can not comment on that one except to suggest a regular dental hygiene routine.

[Kirsten]

I agree that grain isn't an issue for dogs who don't already have grain allergies.  You don't want it to be the first ingredient on the label, but IMO it is fine if it isn't actually grain free.  My dogs have happily eaten dog food with grain in it their entire lives.  I fed that food because their breeder has been feeding it for 40 years.

But you have to feed what you think is best for your own dog.  I always say "feed the best quality food you can afford."  Is there a better food I would feed if I could afford it?  Yes.  But what I do feed is a good quality food and it is good enough.  So don't let anyone guilt you into buying something you can't afford just to meet their expectations.

Ideally the first ingredient will be a meat of some sort and it won't be a "meal" or "digest" or something suspicious, but a recognizable meat like "chicken" or "beef" or "lamb."

Then run your selection by your vet.  I hear a lot of people say disparaging things about their vets' knowledge of canine nutrition, yet they have no credentials themselves, no formal education on the subject, they just subscribe to something they've read on the internet.  Your vet has had some formal education in canine nutrition and should be reading veterinary journals with continuing education on nutrition among other things.  So discuss your choice with him and see if he has anything interesting to offer on the topic.  If nothing else, he will have some anecdotal information based on what his clients have been fed and any problems that have arisen that are due, or likely due, to diet. 

I had a vet years ago, a good old country vet, who used to say things like, well, I've treated about 300 of these, and I've lost 14.  And that's how he'd suggest the odds for recovery, without actually committing himself to predicting whether my animal would be one of the 286 or the 14.  I loved that about him.  That kind of walking database of local veterinary knowledge is worth it's weight in gold.  So go ahead and tap into that resource.  You can always take or leave what he says, but you might as well ask and listen.

[Magesteff]

My family has used mainly purina products for our pets, afain for something like 40 years or so. The dogs did well on it, so I don't have a pressing need to go looking for other brands. Based on things I have readhere I have moved up to a better class or Purina brand -Max gets Purina One Beyond, first ingreditent is real meat either chicken or lamb, and second is either oat or bran although it has corn meal and other meal in it, those are far down the list. The cats get Purina Once Vibrant Maturity, as they need the Omega 3 and glucosamine chondroitin the product has in it, otherwise they would be getting One Beyond Cat formula as well.

[Roxie]

I've learned a lot about nutrition here at SDC, and also from reading up on what is good nutrition.

But for my dog food decisions, I consult Tay's vet and breeder for input.

Tay's vet also treats large animals and is a rural vet. She knows animal nutrition, and I have confidence in what she says to do. Even though she has Iams for sale at her office, she did not recommend it or push it even as an option. She just told me what to look for on the label and what it meant.

Tay is allergic to chicken. Tay's vet said to limit the protein to prevent kidney damage. (He suffered minor kidney damage 2-3 years ago after ingesting 24 200 mg Ibuprofen Liqui-Gel capsules.) Vet and breeder also want me to pay attention to the fat % in his food because Tay is not an easy keeper.

Tay's breeder has fed Purina for 25-30 years.... uses Purina in a grey bag. Her dogs are all winning show dogs, and she breeds Tervs and Groenens on Purina. Her S&R dogs are also fed Purina.

I prefer to stay away from unspecified animal digest as an ingredient toward the top..... but will feed that ingredient if it is well down in the ingredient list.

So, I have fed Purina fish based kibble - he LOVES it! - but I can't find it any more. I have also fed Diamond Naturals Lamb and Rice - he does OK on that. I recently tried 4 Health (made by Diamond), but his stool is frequently loose on that. He is itchy so much of the time on the Diamond products I am going to try another product to see how he does. I have some samples of Solid Gold Hund and Flocken (lamb and rice), and Wolf King (bison) to try.

I do not give him human food (except popcorn when I have it - for him it's Pupcorn!) Raw could be an option... but I worry that would not provide all the nutrition he needs for health, and the chemicals used in livestock production (and fowl) also make me concerned.

Since my heart issues, I have stopped eatting meat so frequently. I'm trying to move toward vegetarian... as eatting animals has led to my major health problems. Chemicals used in the feed lots and prep methods at home are just not healthy for me.

My dad fed raw diet to our GSDs in the 50's and 60's. We'd go shoot rabbit or squirrel, or birds and give him the whole carcass.

[Kirsten]

Roxie, the Purina fish formula is available as ProPlan Sensitive Stomach (it is no longer called "Salmon and Rice" but is the same food).  It is chicken free.  Cole also has a chicken allergy.  Unfortunately, the last time I tried him on the Salmon formula he hated it so much he lost 10 pounds before I gave up and put him back on his favorite chicken formula.  Given his recent love affair with Ollie's fish Fancy Feast (all flavors), I've ordered a bag of sensitive stomach and one of chicken this week.  The girls don't care and will eat either one happily.  So if he tosses up his nose up at the Salmon, the girls will eat it for me and he can have the chicken instead.

Be aware that if you use Purina foods we do have a collection of Purina weight circles that are collected by Karl's Kids on our behalf.  Simply cut the weight circles off the bag and mail them in.  Ilghaus then gathers them and when there are enough, redeems them for Purina "checks" which can be used to purchase more Purina food.  Each check is for $7.  A few years back I calculated each weight circle from a large bag to be worth $4.12 (and it has gone up) so it really does make a difference if you clip and donate those circles.  SDC members who feed Purina can apply to Karl's Kids to receive some of these checks.  They can only be used on Purina foods, but can be used on ANY Purina food.  So if you feed Purina (any variety, including cat food), please save your weight circles, and if you need help purchasing food (and Purina is acceptable to you) please ask for some Purina checks.  If anyone knows of a similar program with any other dog food manufacturer, please PM either me or Ilghaus with that info.

I know a lot of people disparage the Purina foods, and some even blame them for social injustices (like Delta's ruling on raw feeding of member dogs).  All I know is that my dogs have done well on ProPlan, as have my breeder's dogs, and that Purina has been generous to me with coupons and programs to help me get food I could not otherwise afford.  I'm not suggesting it is the right food for everyone (it isn't).  But it is a good food (palatable and good quality) and no one should feel bad feeding it just because some people on the internet like to bash it or because it isn't the fanciest or most expensive.

Sorry for interrupting your thread, Maddy.  I don't personally have experience with any of the foods you mentioned, so I didn't offer an opinion on them.  I have HEARD mixed reviews on Canidae (some like it and had good experiences with it, while others did not like it or had a bad experience), and good reviews for both Innova and EVO.  I don't think I would have an objection to trying any of them with my dogs, though if I were going to change foods, I would like to feed TOTW, which is readily available locally and has ingredients I can pronounce and recognize.  Cole tried it and felt the flavor was so-so, but he's very set in his ways and the boy likes his chicken ProPlan.  Girls thought it was yummy.  It's what CJ will probably be fed since his breeder wants her pups fed a grain-free diet.

[Kirsten]

I've spent some time looking over that food "analysis" site.  First, they do no actual analysis of the foods.  They merely look at the label.  I detect a decided bias and lack of consistency in reviews.

Comparing ProPlan Large Breed and Sensitive Stomach, I see that they have cut and pasted the views so they are identical, yet one gets 1 star and the other gets 2 stars.  I observe that they make several assumptions about the ingredients without actually KNOWING.

I also observed that the first 6 star food I checked in their data base had CHICKEN MEAL as the number one ingredient, yet they incorrectly stated in the review that "The first ingredient is a named meat product."  http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=1730&cat=8

I do not consider this site an accurate measure of the quality of dog food based upon the quality of their reviews.  I suspect, though have not done enough review of their reviews to form a definite opinion, that they are rating foods based largely on whether or not they contain corn.  Yes, corn is a problem for some dogs with allergies.  Most dogs are NOT allergic to corn.  Please note that foxes (which are wild canids) LOVE eating field corn.  My dog is allergic to chicken, and most dog foods do contain chicken, even if that is not the primary ingredient or flavor.  Does that mean all chicken dog food is evil?  No.  It means my dog is allergic to that so I need to read labels and try to avoid it. 

[Kirsten]

I found this page MUCH more informative about reading dog food labels:
http://www.fda.gov/animalveterinary/resourcesforyou/ucm047113.htm

[KatHolly]

Sorry if I offended anyone with my comment. I'm a bit of a food snob. Only eat organic myself and prefer properly balanced raw feeding for my dogs. 

I should clarify that it is just my opinion that Purina is not the best. I prefer not to feed grains, as it is my personal belief that it does not do my dog any good. I also object to several of their chemicals and the high prices they charge for food that is not (IMO) the best quality. If I'm going to buy kibble for the kind of prices that Purina, particularly ProPlan charges, I'd prefer to put that money towards foods that I feel are better for my dogs.

Again, it is just my personal opinion. I've seen Holly flourish when switched from a grain inclusive diet to TOTW to raw. I go by what I see and what my experience has been. I did not mean to insult anyone who feeds it, and I apologize again if I did.

[Kirsten]

And of course I have objections to feeding raw because 1.  factory farmed meat, such as is what is readily available in grocery stores, is not safe unless cooked--it is not the meat of our grandparents and easily carries more than triple the bacteria load of what they ate, and even more when compared to wild game, especially that which is eaten within moments of death.  Yes, this includes organic meat, which simply means it is grown without chemicals, not that it isn't grown in a CAFU.  2.  I also object to the claim that feeding raw is more natural for the dog.  Dogs are genetically engineered, they are not "natural."  There is no "what they would eat in the wild" to compare to because dogs did not evolve in the wild.  Feral dogs, our nearest equivalent to wild dogs, eat garbage.  They are scavengers, not hunters or predators.  3.  Most people do not have sufficient knowledge of nutrition to properly balance a homemade meal, regardless of whether it is raw or cooked.

I'll go with the diet that has actually been tested and proven to be sufficient to sustain a healthy dog.  The proof is in the pudding.  I also go by what I see.  My dogs, and 50 or so of their relatives, I have personally observed to flourish on ProPlan.  This has also been the observation of my breeder over the course of breeding since the early 70's.  My ProPlan dog has exceeded the average life expectancy of his breed by 25%.  A friend who got one of Luna's half sisters immediately switched her to premium boutique foods and the dog has been in poor health since.  Was it the food?  I don't know, but I had to wonder.  Another friend was feeding a boutique food and they were finding a lot of sand in her feces.  No one could figure out where it was coming from until she dissected some of her kibble.  Yup, it was inside the kibble itself.  She's now on a prescription diet (SD) due to seizures and kidney problems.  So if we want to go anecdotal, I'm ready.  I've got plenty more.  Is ProPlan inherently better than all other dog food?  No.  Neither is it inherently inferior to some of these boutique brands that you pay through the nose for.  What it is, is a solidly reliable, nutritionally complete food that is proven to sustain dogs and maintain good nutritional health.

Moral of this story:  read the label and decide for yourself what you want to feed YOUR dog.

[KatHolly]

Too true! Each to their own. Again, I'm really sorry for offending anyone with my comment. Not my intention in any way, shape, or form.

Kirsten could you PM me the name of that brand that had sand in it? I'd like to make sure to avoid using it in the future.

[Magesteff]

Given ths problem with Melamine (which is used in production of things like cheap plates and dishes) a couple years ago -some Producers in Cina were adding it to the meal that was sold to animal food compaines to "boost" the nitrogen content which is the standard used to hmeasure the amount of protien in a source -  it caused kidney damage in many dogs and cats - any dog food could potentially cause a health issue, even top brands.

Kat, everyone has a right to their opinion on what food they find acceptable, even you! 

Since the OP was looking for a brand that was both nutritious and affordable, we are all just throwing in our personal experiences with different brands, even some brands that are not in the list but we have had reasonable results with so that OP has some opinions to add to her research on various products.

[Sheenar]

Hopesclan,

Wellness as a brand is not grain free, but Wellness CORE is.

Pebbles ate Wellness Super 5 Mix, then Wellness Fish and Sweet Potato and then finally Solid Gold Holistique Blendz. I had to feed those brands b/c of my contract with her program. Same with Leon --who eats Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream.

Handsome, the dog I had tried to train before I got Leon, ate Pedigree (the big yellow bag) and did very well on it --his father also eats Pedigree and does very well on it. It has a high corn content, but the dogs were healthy, maintained good weight and coat luster and thrived.