Cat Food redux: kibble size

[Magesteff]

I've had to change what I am feeding Spike. He's the 22 year old with very few teeth and early renal disease.

I was feeding him K/D kibble and canned food. A large portion of the K/D kibble however was falling out of his mouth so I don't think enough was going into his tummy, because when I ran out of the KD I got some cat kibble from the store (yeah yeah, Purina One Maturity 7+ not the best I know, but at least it has a protein listed first in the ingredients) but the size of the pellets of the kibble is a lot smaller (maybe half or one-third the size of the K/D pellets), and there is no kibble around the bowl.

He also feels like he has bulked up some since I have started feeding it a couple weeks ago. His fur is soft and glossy, and he is not acting like he needs to eat anything he can get his mouth on.

 I'm really quite surprised that the size of the kibble is making that huge a difference with him. Yet another thing I will have to talk to the Vet about at the check up this month.

Spike does not like the wet K/D and neither does Hobbes. 


Since he is so old, I'd much rather see  him not starve because the kibble size is too big and not worry so much about the renal issue. The whole point of bringing Spike home from the Humane Society was to make the time remaining to him quality.

[FrostedAcres]

I will tell you something I noticed MANY years ago-- I have seen dogs practically STARVE on the K/D diets!! And they were eating everything in front of them---
 Kibble size does make a difference, especially if it is being swallowed whole-- smaller kibble will break down easier in the stomach, permitting more nutrients to be absorbed.
 Connor is a BIG dog-- but he has problems opening his mouth far enough to crunch the size kibble most people feed a dog his size-- the food he gets now-- the kibble size  is perhaps 1/4 inch in diameter-- and he gets the enjoyment of getting it between his back teeth and crunching!

 If that old cat is doing well on the Purina, then just let him be---His body knows what it needs.

[Spectrum]

K/D is VERY low protein. Cats and dogs with kidney disease NEED low protein, but I think a lot of times the amount in K/D is just way too low even for them. Hills foods in general are pretty poor quality. I'd much rather feed Purina ONE than any Hills product (I refuse to use any Hills/Science Diet product at all, ever...no, I'm not a fan of Purina either, but in a pinch I would choose it over Hills by a long shot). 

If he's in early renal disease (which quite frankly to be 22 and in EARLY renal disease is AMAZING), then the Purina ONE is probably low enough in protein. If he's doing well on it, stick with it!

[Magesteff]

I've been using the Purina One Active Maturity formula for 7+ years of age, and Spike has put on weight and there isn't a lot of kibble left on the table around the food bowl like there was with the K/D. Added benefits of this is it contains Glucosamine/Chondroitin and added Omega Fatty Acids.

Looks like I will be sticking with this one then for a while.

[Lin]

The Purina is probably a higher quality food... Without looking at the ingredients, I'm thinking it is. I dislike all of Hills products and have seen many pets on the prescription diets do much better on either other commercial diets, or home diets.

[Magesteff]

Purina Brand is a a common dog food, I'd say all the family dogs (pets) my family have had generally ate Purina food and they have lived long lives. Teddy (miniature poodle) 17 years old- euthanized because he was blind, deaf and had a lot of arthritis and had trouble rising and laying down. Happy (mixed breed Pekenese/min poodle) 16 years old, had an enlarged heart. Ozzie (brother's dog, doberman/shep mix we think) from County animal control is now 7, and my dog Max (scottie/min poodle mix) is now about 5.

So I have a lot of trust in the brand.

The main ingredient in the Purina cat food is chicken (meat not meal although meal is listed as an ingredient fairly far down). The second ingredient is barley or rice.

 :caution: :caution: (mention of animal death or harm by unscrupulous people)

I also think Purina was not affected by the cat food recall of a couple years ago (due to melamine contamination by asian companies to boost the nitrogen content of the meal  which in pet food tearms means higher protien) - a large number of cats died or were harmed (kidney damage) due to this issue.

[Spectrum]

Just because an animal lives a long time doesn't mean its good food. I've knwon plenty of animals eating generics that have lived well into their teens. Hills I absolutely will not use. Purina I will only use the ONE or ProPlan formulas if I'm desperate, which hasn't happened yet since I changed foods. Now of course there are animals with special dietary needs like kidney disease or bladder stones. But for the most part high protein is better, and the more meat and fewer grains the better. For a good starter's guide to pet food check out dogfoodanalysis.com

[Lin]

Age span isn't a good indicator of health used alone. A dog can live a long life suffering, or a short life in perfect health...

Dogs are just like people, and what someone can tolerate to survive varies greatly. Some people can live long lives eating junk food every day. Some can't. But IMO its best to start off with the best food you can possibly use, and work from there.

I've seen pets die from Purina foods, my stepdads cat needed surgery for a urinary blockage caused by bladder stones that was tracked back to the purina food. He fed the cheapest, kit'n'kaboodle.

I also think in many cases vets will start prescribing diets just because they don't know where to go from there. Too many pets are put on prescription diets that don't need it, and would be much better off on a high quality diet. I nearly lost my cat Piper due to feeding Iams multicat food. She lost a ton of weight and started having issues with daily vomiting and diarrhea. We were back and forth to the vet and did a ton of tests, various prescriptions. She wanted me to start on a prescription diet because we couldn't find a cause. I started researching cat nutrition, and switched to a high quality food. She made a complete turn around and was healthier than she'd ever been in her life. She had always been pretty skinny and hard to keep weight on, looked like Scar in the Lion King. But she gained all of the lost weight and more. So I found a new vet.

[HumSD]

When my last SD was a month before leaving us, he wouldn't eat the regular kibble mixed with broth like he had been eating.  So I went to the local pet store and got some sample bags of tiny kibble.  He ate that for a while till he refused all kibble.

One of our cats will only eat her kibble and tuna. It's much smaller pieces then large breed dog food but not the smallest cat kibble I've seen.  Our other cat is a fat pig and will eat anything, including the dog food. Our dog food is relatively flat pieces but about a 1/4 inch in diameter.

[Amber]

I recognized a vet clinic here in Korea, though everything was in Korean and no pictures, except one thing - a Hill's logo!  I asked and sure enough, it was a vet (didn't look like a pet store).

[Spectrum]

I also think in many cases vets will start prescribing diets just because they don't know where to go from there. Too many pets are put on prescription diets that don't need it, and would be much better off on a high quality diet.

Definitely! Logan had chronic diarrhea early on when I got him. He ate a lot of chicken and rice during that time. Well, the vet wanted me to put him on W/D. No way! Eventually I finally convinced him to run a fecal PCR and lo and behold, it was positive for clostridium. Tylan fixed him up nicely, though his stools were still a bit softer (he was eating Diamond Naturals since that's what the breeder fed him). I switched him over to TOTW and he's had perfect poop ever since.

One of the collies I'm dogsitting also had chronic diarrhea, and was put on W/D. She switched all her dogs over to Innova, and the diarrhea came back. Vet did a fecal PCR and -gues what! Also positive for clostridium. He is now on Tylan, but since it didn't work immediately the vet put him back on W/D. Tylan takes a while to work, so of course it's not going to change things overnight!  W/D only masks the symptoms. Had the PCR been run when the dog first had diarrhea instead of throwing him on a high-fiber food to cover up the symptoms, then the dog would be finished with the treatment by now.

[HumSD]

I'm confused. What food is W/D?

[Spectrum]

I'm confused. What food is W/D?

W/D is a Hills dog food (makers of Science Diet). It was originally meant to be a weight loss food. Since then they've started marketing it for not only weight loss and maintenance, but also digestive issues, bladder stones, and something else (can't recall at the moment). It's basically all fiber, with very, very little protein (I think 15%). It has things like peanut shells and soybean hulls for fiber. The only meat product in it is chicken by-product meal. It also has ethoxyquin, BHA and BHT as preservatives, which is something I will absolutely NOT give my dogs.

If my dogs need more fiber (such as for anal gland issues) I give them psyllium capsules or  canned pumpkin. If they have an upset stomach I give them homemade chicken and rice and some slippery elm "tea". If they are overweight I reduce their calorie intake and increase exercise. And of course if there's a medical condition behind any of it, I want to find that out and treat it, not just mask the symptoms.

[HumSD]

Thanks Spectrum!  Max came with a free bag of Science Diet, that's what he had been fed.  I used enough of it to transfer him over to a better food then chucked the rest.  I don't approve of using dog food with lots of filler. He's on grain-free food.  My last SD had anal gland problems sometimes and I bought canned sweet potato for him. Peanut shells and soybean hulls can go jump in the river and take Hills with them.

[Sheenar]

Pebbles had anal gland issues --I gave her a few spoonfuls of canned plain pumpkin when she did. Worked great!

Currently, both Marzipan and Leon are on Taste of the Wild (different kinds, of course.) Marzipan acts like she's starving all the time and has taken to eating my roommate's dog's food --she is now 12 pounds when she should be 9. Vet suggested transitioning her back to her previous canned diet (Authority Weight Management) which should help her feel more full. I'm going to try adding green beans to every meal in the meantime to see if it helps her not feel so hungry.