ESD vs. PSD?

[smushybanana]

I'm a 24 year old female. I was in grad school but I'm on a medical leave of absence. I have major depression, anxiety/panic attacks, and ADHD. I am medicated but having trouble getting stabilized. My dog is an Emotional Support Animal as authorized by my psychiatrist. He is well trained and has air traveled coast to coast with me. He naturally does things to alleviate/mitigate my symptoms, like alerting me to panic attacks and blocking me when I feel threatened. When I'm in public places and I don't have him with me I have much more trouble recovering and remaining composed. I think he could be trained to perform specific tasks on cue like taking me to a safe place. Would it be ethical/moral/legal for me to train and claim him as a 'real' psychiatric service dog? What would I need as far as documentation if I decide to do so? Is there anything else I need to know?

[Roxie]

alerting me to panic attacks

You can't tell when you are beginning to decompensate? You don't know the symptoms to recognize as a panic attack begins?

Thoroughly knowing one's behavioral and mental illnesses and one's body's physical response is paramount in using a SD to mitigate symptoms.

naturally does things to alleviate/mitigate my symptoms,

That's just what a pet does for a human, more specifically dogs. However this has nothing whatsoever to do with being a SD. Things a dog does by nature do not constitute trained tasks.

When I'm in public places and I don't have him with me I have much more trouble recovering and remaining composed.

These are issues to explore with your therapist - how to manage your symptoms independently and not learn to be co-dependant on a dog to to help you recover (from what I don't know) and remain composed. Remaining composed is kinda you job to do.... not a dog's job. Besides, you can train yourself to use a talisman, a stone, a coin, a key fob or just relaxation breathing techniques to regain and maintain composure.

Would it be ethical/moral/legal for me to train and claim him as a 'real' psychiatric service dog?

If you are not disabled under the ADA, and you truly do not have symptoms you are willing to learn to manage independently, I don't support you using an SD.

I'm not your therapist, and I know nothing about you or your medical or psychiatric situation.

Based upon the limited information you wrote about, I (my sole opinion only) don't think a SD would be of value for you. It kinda seems to me you are trying to find a way to bring your pet everywhere with you because you like the company of your best friend.

I think an ESA is a perfect choice for you!

Work your issues out in therapy, stabilize your life and work with your Psychiatrist to determine your level (if any) disability your mental illness causes you. Remember: a diagnosis is not a disability.

All the conditions you describe are basically temporary conditions and conditions one can fairly easily master how to recognize and manage symptoms successfully.

Lastly, you would need to learn much more about SD's. You can't just train a dog to be one. The dog must have the qualities SD's require. Only a rare few dogs in a hundred ever make it through the training and proofing.

I'm happy you are here! Because this is an excellent place to explore and learn!

So! What are you studying in grad school? When are you going back?

Roxie


 

[smushybanana]

Roxie,

Thanks for your reply.
Let me address some of your questions.

My issues had to be declared a disability by University sponsored doctors in order for me to be granted a medical leave of absence from the program. I believe to fly with an emotional support animal you must have a legal disability? So I believe that I may fit that criteria, although I do still struggle with the feelings that it's not a 'real' problem. I had to leave school and come back home basically so someone would be there to take care of me, since I was failing at doing it myself. I am also working with a variety of medical professionals, although I feel that the prevailing attitude is that I just need to try harder, and then I will be fine. This seems to be the attitude about depression.

You're correct, I don't know much about service dogs. But, I have a background in training competition and field trial dogs. The dog in question was originally a trained competition dog but didn't have the physical ability. I've worked with hundreds of different dogs; this is the only one I feel could be a service dog. Whether it would help me, or is a legitimate undertaking, I don't know.

[Roxie]

declared a disability by University sponsored doctors in order for me to be granted a medical leave of absence from the program.

Only a judge can declare one disabled. Until that time, one must meet the ADA definition of disability. A diagnosis does not = a disability.

to fly with an emotional support animal you must have a legal disability

One must have a mental illness that is disabling and certified such by a Dr. Psychologist, Mental Health Practicioner....

From the FAQ's on SDC's travel section: "In order to fly with an Emotional Support Animal in the cabin of the aircraft with you, you will need a special letter from a licensed mental health professional.
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These requirements for the letter are excerpted from http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/20030509.pdf
 
The letter:
 * must not more than one year old
 * must be on the professional's letterhead
 * must be from a mental health professional

and must state all of the following:
 
1. That the passenger has a mental health-related DISABILITY. Note it is not just a mental illness diagnosis, but a mental illness which SUBSTANTIALLY LIMITS ONE OR MORE MAJOR LIFE ACTIVITIES. Airlines are not permitted to require the documentation to specify the type of mental health disability, e.g., panic attacks.
 
2. That the presence of the animal is NECESSARY to the passenger's health or treatment.

3. That the individual writing the letter is a licensed mental health professional and that the passenger is under his or her care. The individual writing the letter should clearly indicate what type of mental health care professional they are (psychiatrist, psychologist, clinical social worker, et cetera).

NOTE: Airlines may also require documentation including the date, type, and state of the mental health professional's license.
 
"The purpose of this provision is to prevent abuse by passengers that do
 not have a medical need for an emotional support animal and to ensure that
 passengers who have a legitimate need for emotional support animals are
 permitted to travel with their service animals on the aircraft."

http://www.regulations.gov/freddocs/04-24371.htm

try harder, and then I will be fine. This seems to be the attitude about depression.

Recovery takes time and committment to making the changes that facillitate recovery. Depression is not permanent, it is temporary. It is a process to move through.

This is one cool place to learn about SD's!

Roxie

[FrostedAcres]

Smushybanana? Ooohhh-kay

Now, That's out of my system--

Roxie and I butt heads on a lot of things--but, unless your depressive disorder is MAJOR, and has been interfering with your life long term, just keep your dog as an ESA. I not only recognize the onset of my anxiety issues, but am now able to recognize, for sure, symptoms of small seizures that don't totally incapacitate me.  I tell my SD to 'get me out' when I feel I  cannot stay in the situation that is triggering, and have become disoriented. You need to really soul search on this-- and yes, people telling you to 'pull up the bootstraps' get real annoying- but there are times, even with a full fledged SD, that you may not have the dog available. My fella was out of commission for two weeks- that was two weeks I could not go grocery shopping! Two weeks of not being able to go walking with a neighbor-- see what I am getting at? I believe Nora has in here, somewhere, the major headache it can be, taking a dog everywhere with you-- she put in on at the very beginning of SDC's life! Having a SD along with you, creates a lot of anxiety/panic triggers in public--believe me, it isn't easy, and unless you are aware of the melting down, you can't train the dog to compensate properly.

[Roxie]

lol!!! Terry is by far more politically correct than I am and succint.

If you are newly diagnosed, give it a few years before deciding what suports you need to manage a disability. You have the option of having a marvelous  ESA to help you boost your mood at home.

SD's are expensive to get and expensive to maintain. They are a hassle to take everywhere (planning, equipment, extra time), they cause exacerbations of mental illness symptoms (by being so prominent causing access conflicts and negative attention from the public requiring chutzpah), they can cause heart break (when they have to be washed out, euthanized, retired), conflicts getting a job - using transportation - finding housing - going to college.

An SD is not a Lassie or Rin Tin Tin or a Benji that is magical and always adorable and darling and solves problems.

Roxie

[Magesteff]

Training as an SD covers several different areas: Obedience, Trained tasks to mitigate a disability, Health of the animal, and Temperment. Very few dogs can meet all of these criteria. Health involves having the vet certify hips, elbos and eyes - a SD does a lot of walking, even if you don't need it to also do mobility or retrieval if items. Temperment is very important, as the dog will come in contact with a lot of people, animals and situations, it is very very important that the dog not have any agressive behaviors that could escalate into a bite situation. Many people say "oh he growls but he loves people" in reality that is a bite waiting to happen. You must be very realistic with what the dog can do and accomplish.

As Others have mentioned "natural behaviors" and basic obedience are not enough to call a dog a service dog. it must have specific behaviors that are trained to help you deal with a disability.

I have major depression - have had it diagnosed for many years, but I do not need a dog to help me cope with ity. Medication does well. Keep in mind that psychoactive medications can take more than 8 weeks to be fully effective, and it could take longer than that to find the medication or combination of medications that are most effective for you. 

Read through the forums here, and take time to understand your diagnosis and how it affects your life, and what coping skills you can learn, before you add a SD into the mix. The dog can only help you if you understand what behaviors you truely need from the dog to get through your day. Lassie and Rin Tin Tin are not Service dogs they are fictional characters.

[robbertbobbert]

try harder, and then I will be fine. This seems to be the attitude about depression.

Recovery takes time and committment to making the changes that facillitate recovery. Depression is not permanent, it is temporary. It is a process to move through.

This is one cool place to learn about SD's!

Roxie

Roxie- I don't mean to be disrespectful or seem like I'm splitting hairs, but please remember that depression isn't temporary for everyone. It think that it's more of something to learn to live with and manage than something to move "through." I will have to live with my depression (along with my other issues) for the rest of my life. It may be easier to manage at some parts of my life than at others, but it will always be there. I hope you know what I mean, I think I remember you saying things along these lines in other posts, so maybe you just worded it differently this time.

[Roxie]

I'm not talking about the blues or SAD. Depression is indeed something one moves through - that action is part of what brings about wellness.  It is "temporary" as it has its ebbs and flows. It also can disappear. It is not a permanent debilitating mood disorder.

remember that depression isn't temporary for everyone. It think that it's more of something to learn to live with and manage than something to move "through."

Through self discovery and hard work through reading self-help books, having peer support, developing a WRAP, participating in counseling or therapy, making changes to achieve wellness, one learns the skills and techniques to move through depression so the condition has little or no impact on one's life.

Rather than learning to live with depression, one takes responsibility for that condition, and how to manage symptoms, circumvent major depressive episodes, recognize the process of decompensation so they can nip it in the bud!

I have no clue where on the spectrum of recovery you are. As you become more experienced, you will gain confidence and learn the tricks of the trade of having mental illness.

Just don't buy into the medical model of having a so-called mental illness. The medical model will teach you to be dependent on things one does not necessarily have to be dependent upon, and not independent and pro-active.

A diagnosis does not = a disability. All mental conditions can be managed successfully by knowledge and exercizing the most appropriate choices.

To have depression, or to have frequent (even infrequent) depressive episodes may happen. But it is how one REACTS to the experience of depression that is a person's choice.

Depression, by the way, is a totally normal response, feeling and experience in human life.

I will choose when I feel depressed because of grief - sadness - trauma past, present or anticipated to do the following:  Journal my feelings, talk to my voices and tell them they are total idiots and I will give them none of my time and energy, laugh watching "My Name is Earl" or "Reno 911", do beading, read some inspiring books, use my many books of daily affirmations, make my favorite coffee and drink it, snuggle under a fuzzy blankie, groom Tay, go watch the people of WalMart in real life, play Frisbee with Tay, cry and get it out of my system, wash dishes, loudly sing Lady GaGa and Pink and Black Eyed Peas songs and of course the song "Ayer" and dance around the house or while I'm sitting on the couch or bobbing my head and shoulders while I cruise in my granny Taurus, post to my friends on SDC and FB, scheme and dream creating a job that will get me off entitlements, reminisce, do art work or tell knock-knock jokes with Hannah, go to the library and read books....   the list goes on to infinity!

Hey! Do you know the difference between a Rottweiler and a Mom?

The Rottweiler eventually lets go.
************************

Knock-Knock!

Who's there?

Olive!

Olive who?

Olive YOU!!
*******************


Why did the Jello wobble?

It saw the milk shake!
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This is absolutel true! Cross my heart!

What did Fledchen's parakeet say when its brand new cage fell apart?

Cheap! Cheap!
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Oh! Caring!

Is it true that out of bounds means

A tired Kangaroo!!
********************

Totally tacky, but:

What route does a person with Schizophrenia take?

The Psycho Path!

Roxie!

[FrostedAcres]

ROXIE!!!! You just added to my list of standard jokes!!!

[labs4ever]

I agree that   depression can be a life long disability.  You yourself kinda said so Roxie when you said it "ebs and flows" and you learn  ways to watch for "major depressvie episodes"   

This IMO is all about  adapting ot ones disability.  It does not mean it has disappeared.   For example. I have ben dealing with  Major depression (with psychosis) for at least half my life.   I have  experienced  in hospital   psych  stays and  many many years of  therapy as well as psychotropic meds (which I KNOW we all have different views on)  The fact is   my depression  does eb and flow and when  it is at its stronest I have been suicidal.   

One of the ways I  am  planning ahead for  dealing with potential  suicide ideations is to keep the majoity of my meds locked up so that  I  can not impulsively take them and   when I get in that sapce,   it is very difficult to  controlt hat impulsivity so  ianything I can do to  prevent that  is good.     I am not suicidal  now and    am not planning to be  but  I am prepared if it  happens.     Just because  you aren't  reacting to  the voices of schizophrenia doesn't mean you are disabled by it right?     

Anyway,  as far as SD vs ESA,  I noticde the o OP  said that the dog was dropped from    obedience competition due to physical reasons.  as others have said      an SD needs to be   healthy on  all sides of the coin and depending on  WHY the physical drop was,   the dog may not be appropriate for  SD work either.     if it has a physical issue

And   sending everyone smiles! 

[robbertbobbert]

Roxie you are right! Everyone, especially people struggling with mental illness, need excellent self-awareness and effective coping skills. If I lose sight of those, my depression would likely overwhelm me again. Just like you said, it ebbs and flows. It's always there, and it will always be waiting to come back tenfold if I don't stay on top of it. It isn't going anywhere, I sometimes just do a better job of managing it.

[Roxie]

See, my perception of being disabled, seriously ill, traumatized, struggling economically is something I had to make a very conscious choice to have. I could choose to ruminate on all the totally unfair unending trauma's I experienced in life and live a debilitated and limited life focusing on the helplessness, anger, fear, outrage, terrors as feelings. I did that for a long time, because I had no clue I could do anything but that.

Not all providers within the mental health field are =. Based on their training, their world view, and their level of fostering independence rather than dependence: each may have a different treatment method which can positively - negatively - neutrally affect us as consumers.

When I started presenting symptoms of PTSD and Depression - and later Schizophrenia the psychiatric profession (a medical model) was still blaming the victims, doing lobotomies and "treating" (controlling) people with Haldol and Thorazine. After a horrible and terrifying introduction to mental illness treatment, I quickly learned to hide (like from my perpetrators!) and deny my own symptoms and feelings.

Any person who has survived abuse and trauma has the darn right to feel depressed! It is a normal response to what we humans face daily to survive. Any person who is struggling to survive for any reason has a right to feel depressed and have PTSD and what ever "symptom" to be able to cope with and survive!

After time (time can be a few hours - a few months - a few decades) passes, most people reach an equilibrium to be able to cope with having survived, move forward, and integrate into their community on some level. This is where I believe the depression ebbs and flows. The difference is whether a person has been able to develop the coping skills to make it until the next hour - 6 hrs - next week - next month.....

I really don't give a hoot on how long depression (or anything else) will be with me. I won't give that the time of day. What is important to me is whether or not I have mastered the coping skills to continue moving forward and achieving the goals I set for myself. Even if that goal is to only brush my teeth twice a day.

Remembering my life, and running to the root cellar to hide from a tornado as it is lifting our home away from us, or my snow mobile running out of fuel in nowhere rural MN tundra and having to hike miles in the bitter cold to find shelter, standing up to my kidnnapper or rapist to be able to get away and live, turn and walk away from my dead baby because I had other children to care for.....  I learned that one has to keep on going and those that dwell and linger on grief and saddness or act out on anger and rage.... might not "make it". And I have always been driven to "make it".

Life is very difficult and heart breaking and painful. That is why I learned to see my glass half full and when empty: fill it back up! And why I learned all those ridiculous and crazy coping skills.... just to "make it".

So, that is why I believe depression (and most everything else) is only temporary. I can nurture it to have it linger, or I can do what ever it takes me to keep plugging away and not have illness or disability define who I am and what I will accomplish.

Rox

[Magesteff]

While I know I must and I do work on managing and coping skills for my illnesses, which include depression - I do not think that non-affected people truly have a grasp on what it takes to get through a day with major depression. Spoon theory does a great job of explaining how much "willpower" you may have, however there are times that it just doesn't do as much to explain all the issues.

My mother frequently thought I should just be able to "push" myself harder. Friends seemed to think I should just be able to have the "willpower" to get things done.

What they didn't understand is that this particular illness for me, affects my willpower. There are times when I just have no willpower to draw on to get myself out the front door and off to a doctor's appointment, off to school, off to work. I can try and try but some days it just isn't there, isn't enough and to have someone say "you just need..." really makes me angry because I am trying. Roxie, you are welcome to your opinion, but the mindset of "I just need to push myself harder" does not work for me. Has never worked for me.

I am very frustrated by my illness. When I was younger, before I was affected by major depression, I woke up and literally could jump out of bed and hit the ground running. Now it is about one day out of a couple of weeks I can do that.

So please, don't tell me I just need to set my miond over matter with this, to just push myself harder. I've tried. I can't.

[Roxie]

"I just need to push myself harder" does not work for me. Has never worked for me.

So, what does work for you? What ever does work, do it.. again and again! Until you want to do something different.

In my life if I had chosen to NOT push myself that one more time just a bit harder, I would not have achieved my goals. My belief is that all persons should indeed push --- just a tad harder again and again! Who knows? One just might win!!!

I totally realize every person is at a different point in recovery and wellness... but by gollies, I get weary hearing month after month the excuses, rationalizations and justifications of why people make the choices to stay in the ruts they say are unbearable and uncomfortable. If it is that bad, my question is: why continue staying in something so bad and intolerable? Do the work, make the changes and sally forth!

It is hard, daunting, scarey, frustrating, upsetting..... but worth all the work!