Would an SD help me?

[labs4ever]

I agree if it was about motivation   then   we would ALL be better.  I have a couple of ideas for the light thing to.   First  I have PTSD amoung other psych issues and one of the things I did was hang   a   row of  "movie theatre" type lights  that I got at home depot, so kind of like a bunch of whit hoiday lights except that they are incased in protective plastic of some kind.  I hung them on my ceiling and htey are always on and help me deal with my fear of the dark.


The other idea I have for a light is you can buy  devices, I don't know what they are called that turn regular  lamps into touch lamps and then put it at a level the dog can reach.   I THINK the   devices themselves can be set on the floor.  I am sure there is a way to work out.   I have a big dog so can  have her do  tall lights too,  Just an idea!   

[Nianhel]

one of the things I did was hang   a   row of  "movie theatre" type lights  that I got at home depot, so kind of like a bunch of whit hoiday lights except that they are incased in protective plastic of some kind.

You mean rope lights? http://www.ledlightsorient.com/images/LED%20Rope%20Lights/LED-Rope-Light-0408.jpg

I love those things. I used to have them around the perimeter of my room (where the wall and ceiling meet) when I was younger. They weren't so bright that I couldn't sleep, but they were bright enough that I could certainly see. I would sit up all night waiting for something to attack me in the dark if I didn't have them or a nightlight or something.

[hopesclan]

Ok, I have always been curious about this.  How exactly do people train dogs to wake them up from a nightmare?

1.  How does a dog KNOW you are having a nightmare?
2. How do you train this behavior?  Do you have someone sit in a room with you watching all night (maybe connected to an EEG or sleep wave monitoring stuff) and train and or capture the correct behavior?

I have really bad night terrors, but I have never been able to wrap my mind around the idea of training my SD to wake me up during them.

[labs4ever]

yes  those are the lights I mean! 
THey work really welll.


Not sure about the   nightmare thing, because I don't think  one would always call out in a nightmare and  aren't night mares happening during REM sleep  which means   you are  "paralysed" so you won't get out of bed during a dream?   I too woul dbe interesdted to see how people train this.   

[BeBold]

hi all,

sorry for those who go thru the same stuff as I do and esp the hard family stuff. My mom is a "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" kind of person and besides that, well, a narcissist. So, usually if I start talking about something going on with me - she will find a way to make it about her so i just shut up.

anyway, I wanted to respond to the training to wake up from a nightmare thing.  This is partly what I get confused about. What I have read is that a dog needs to be "trained" for things but aren't there things that a dog just "does" that can make them considered a service dog? A specific example of this is a seizure dog. Seizure dogs are not "trained" to detect seizures - some just do right? How can you "train" an animal to detect a seizure in the future if a human doesn't even know. Some animals just "possess" that ability. Does that remove their ability to be considered a "service dog" because they weren't "trained"? nope.

anyway, my Luca was clearly professionally trained once I spent 2 or 3 days with him. He never ever barks. at all. He stands absolutely still when approached by an animal or a human. he knows several commands already and I am still finding out what commands he knows. He never pulls on a leash and walks right with me. I still don't know the command to get him to eat. he sits between the living room and the kitchen while I prepare his food. he just sits and watches. I put his food on the floor and he still sits where he is and won't approach the food. There is clearly a command he was taught and I don't know what it is. I have tried "food", eat, mange,  ok, and sometimes just go and pick him up and take him to his food. (if anyone has suggestions of what command he could have been taught, I would love to know.)

so, as for the "waking me during a nightmare" - he just does. I don't know I am having a nightmare clearly and I don't know what I do during a nightmare - I know my ex used to wake me and tell me I was having a nightmare - and I would do the same for her. You can just tell. I was very surprised the second night I had him and he licked my hand veraciously during the night till I woke up. Once awake, I was having images in my head so I assumed I was having a nightmare of a flashback.  (I tend to have FB's in my sleep more than nightmares but they look the same either way.)

about three days later he did the same thing. My psychiatrist said that just doing that makes him a service dog - which may or may not be true - but she wants me to be able to take him with me when I go away and not all hotels accept pets - and many places I go away to, don't accept pets at all as they are private lodges.  My "sleep" life has changed since I got him. I don't take any sleep meds anymore and I sleep!

At some point, just being able to sleep is life changing.

I read that SDs had to be "individually trained" for what they do. So, how does that work with epilepsy dogs? really, I am curious how it works. I have so many questions about this whole process. I have much to learn.  thanks, be.

[blkpanther0001]

I read that SDs had to be "individually trained" for what they do. So, how does that work with epilepsy dogs? really, I am curious how it works. I have so many questions about this whole process. I have much to learn.  thanks, be.

they naturally alert to seizures, but they are trained to do other things, like get the phone for the person, bring a blanket, go get certain people to help, and if they are lucky the dog will alert to the seizure.

my dog neiko alerts to my heart problems giving me a 20-30 minute warning, that alone does not qualify him for my service dog as it is a natural alert, yes i refined it to an alert i could recognize and not ignore, but did not train him to alert.  but he does go get family members on command, or if I go down and don't respond to him he gets help.

 on days I am in a wheelchair he helps by picking up dropped items, opening doors. he can help pull the wheelchair if needed.

when I am having really bad days and cannot get up he fetches and carries things from me to others in the house, and back, he can bring me the  phone (usually kept in the same place but not always he has had to search for it).

does this help explain the difference between a untrained natural alert and a task that a seizure alert dog is trained to help with?

[Magesteff]

My brother's dog came from the county pound, he sits/lays at the opening between the livingroom and kitchen while his meal is fixed. He doesn't go to his food until someone says "Breakfast" or "Dinner" if Ozzie doesn't move right away we might ask "Don't you want your breakfast (dinner)? You can eat it now." That usually gets him moving. As Ozzie is 75 pounds, we certainly don't want him over by the person fixing his meal jumping around, his patient attitude at meal time is one of the things we love about him so much.

Max is the same way. I can put the food down, and he waits for me to say "Dinner time, you can eat!" Then I have to shoo Spike my 21 y.o. 7 pound cat away from Max's food.

[BeBold]

  " someone says "Breakfast" or "Dinner"    "Dinner time, you can eat!"

thanks, I'll have to try those!

as for the seizure stuff, yeah, it does explain it but it still doesn't seem right that just because it's "natural" for this particular dog, he wouldn't be considered a SD since it's not natural for ALL dogs.

things seem less black and white for those of us with ONLY a psych issue and purely using a dog for a PSD. I have physical issues as well, but not planning on training Luca to ameliorate those issues - although I guess that could change esp if my physical issues got worse like seizure stuff - god forbid! I have always done physical things on my own so I know I can continue. Course, as a small dog, he is more limited as to how he could help physically - like he would never pull a chair etc. My life is clearly affected by my physical issues, but not really stuff a SD could help with - or help enough to have him for that.

 The PTSD stuff is different. Since we are a team in training, I have hopes about things I will be able to train him for and he is clearly trainable which gives me hope for him being able to learn. If not, he will become my ESA; meanwhile, we are at the beginning of the process. We have to start somewhere.

so, K9, what are hour thoughts about whether or not a SD could help you?  Just curious since it was your original question. Are you getting clearer?

be.

[k94doglady]

I'm entertaining the thought but still not sure whether I would qualify to use one or not. I guess that's something that only my therapist could tell me for sure. I'm continuing therapy and leaving the option open. I know that it's not something that I can just jump into. It takes planning and preparation and a PSD is more effective if you have a strong bond with the dog. I've been training my puppy in basic obedience right now. i plan on training her to do tasks when we get to that point in her training, just in case I am able to use her. If not, then I'll have a very well trained pet. She's only 3 1/2 months old, but very intelligent. I have had her for about 4 weeks now. She has learned Sit, Down, Come, Target (my hand only so far), Place, Leave It, Drop It, Off, Stay, Watch Me, Stand and we're working on not touching food unless it's in her bowl or comes from my hand ( I babysit a 17 month old, so we're teaching her to only take food from my hand so she won't take the baby's food). I have trained quite a few dogs ( I fostered Goldens and Golden mixes for almost 3 years and have had several dogs of my own), so I'm hoping that I'm up to this challenge. So far she has not reacted negatively to my anxiety, still waiting to see if she will be able to help with it. It's helpful to see that there are other people with problem like mine who have been helped by a PSD.  It's encouraging to see that other people's PSDs have helped them learn to cope, function and even to trust again. My issues have gotten worse since we had to put my German Shepherd down right after Christmas, so even getting back to where I was then would be an improvement. Just to clear up any confusion that there may be. I don't plan on using my pup as a PSD until she's at least
1 1/2 to 2 years old. I know that her training will take at least that long. And I plan on continuing my therapy while I'm training her and even afterwards. I know that there are no quick fixes and that she will have to be trained to do specific tasks and have to pass the Canine Good Citizenship and the Public Access Test. If she cannot pass those then she won't be reliable in public.I'm also aware that right now she's not a PSD in training, she's just a pup with potential. I'm just trying to keep my options open. Anything to get my life back at this point. Thank you again to all who have responded. Every little bit of new info is helpful. I don't mind when people get off topic when replying to my posts. You never know when or where you'll pick up a new, useful bit of info or insight. +So thank you so much for all the help and advice from everyone.

[Magesteff]

From what I have been reading here over the last few weeks, it would take about 2 years to train a dog to be a PSD. Basic Obedience training i fine, if your dog is only going to be an Emotional Support Animal and stay home and not be a dog that goes with you everywhere. To be considered a Service Dog it has to be trained in a task that specifically addresses your disability. For example, body blocking  to keep people from approaching you too close, or leading you out of a store if you become disoriented. There are many other types of tasks and once you get enough posts under your belt, you can ask people if they would be willing to pm or email with you to discuss specific tasks. Nora and others train their own dogs and might be willing to give you some pointers. Spectrum allways comments that anything you could get a highly advanced (fictional) robot to do, you could train an SD or PSD to do. There is also a difference between "Alert" which is something the dog developes on it's own - an ability to tell when a person might have a siezure or is beginning to have an anxiety attack, and cannot be trained (else any dog could do it), and "tasks" or "response" to an event - like picking up dropped items, handing clerk a credit card or money, or making certain someone having a seizure is kept safe and objects are pushed away from the handler, and help the handler remain safe while she recovers her senses.

[labs4ever]

The reason is a  "natuarl alerter" on it's own can't be considered an SD is because  of 1.  the definition of SD   needing it to be traine to do something to mitigate the disabiltiy.  The alert itself does not midtigate the disability.  Sophie alerts to my seizures but she can't stop them,   SHe responds to them by laying next to me on the floor and  keeping me away from  objects I could hit while I am down, and  licks me  to help me come out of my seizure,   We did have to train her to l.ay down and stay focused on me,  we did not have to train her to alert.   Chances are if you have a medical condition  that could benefit from alerting, you also need the dog to respond to it.  An example for a PTSD  dogh is  the dog alerts you to a PTSD  moment,   you can  train the dog to  tell you  (not in words of course) if  people/things you are seeing are really there or not.   You can  teach the dog to turn on lights  when you start to go into a PTSD moment, and the cue to the   lights is not a command "lights" but  you actually haveing hte attack.  HOpe that makes sense!


2. IF   a dog could be considered an SD simply because it alerts,   there would be even MORE fakers and huggers out therre thatn there are already and    alerting is not as yet, as far as I know  someone correct me if I am wrong provebale in court.   WHich is where the dfinition comes from.   You can prove a dog responds to a seizure but you can't prove  that is what they are alerting to,  I k now it is confusing.

[k94doglady]

Thank you for the response. I have put some thought into different tasks that may help. Body blocking is one of them. Helping me to find a bathroom or other quiet area to decompress is another. I'm also interesting in teaching her some kind of task that will break the mental cycle that leads into a panic attack. Not exactly sure how or what. The reason that I'm hopeful about her response to my anxiety is due to my other dogs responses to it. Not all dogs can handle anxiety in their owner. One of my dogs will move away from me when I'm anxious, the other one is actually afraid of my anxiety and will hide. Once I get enough posts on I'm hoping that I'll be able to get some more in depth and specific ideas as to where to take her training. Thank you again for the responses.

[AlysianneO]

I'm going to post some of the stuff my dog does for me, but I do also agree with some of the other people on here, it's not going to help you to try and get a service dog right now. You are CONSTANTLY under scrutiny by the public, you are confronted by idiots who think they know the laws, and try to deny you access. You have to be able to somewhat handle yourself before you try to go out with a SD. Just today I was VERY rudely confronted by a lady who was completely ignorant of the laws, and tried to kick me out, under the basis that their sign said no pets, and no sign said service dogs anywhere.
Yes, I freaked out, but I was able to hold it together long enough to get out, after I said my piece, and freak out a little.
People judge you just by looking at you, people will try to call the dog, pet the dog, yell at you because you're not blind, so why do you need a dog????
It's rough, and they warned me, but I wasn't prepared for it.
Now, I have pretty much everything you have said, but I've learned to control a little, thanks to a very devoted set of friends and a few therapists
Brandi knows when I'm down, and won't allow me to dwell...
She actually started these on her own, and we worked with her to shape the behaviors into tasks.
When I become down, she comes up and loves on me, not a task, but very helpful.
If I start to escalate into tears/suicidal thoughts, whatever, she "grounds" me. She literally gets in my face, nudges, licks, whatever it takes to snap me out of my funk, and it draws the attention of my friends, who are very attuned to me now, and they help as well. We're still working on shaping some other grounding behaviors, such as when I hit an OCD state, which can lead to self-injury, without me realizing it, where she disrupts me... She is also learning a retrieve, since I drop things, and I have bad balance and don't bend over very well.
There is much more, but this is a general thing...
And we are always growing.
 :paw:Alysianne

[labs4ever]

I forgot to say  that   another reason a natural alert does not make a SD  is because   you can not  prove  a natural alert in court of law,   but you CAN prove   task training,  by  cueing the dog for some tasks,   or training logs for others.   

[Brian Jones]

lol about the electrical thoughts. yeah, I have a remote for tube lights as well. no way Luca could push it tho. a light popping on to bring me out of a nightmare might also scare the p out of me! lol.

I would have to agree with you on that, a sudden light being switched on would prob. send me into a panic attack. Would be a very bad thing with my wife beside me.